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Forums - General - There’s probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life

mrstickball on 07 April 2009
WessleWoggle said:

 

The difference is atheism starts on no presumtions, and theism starts on the presumtion that an almighty being exists. Let me ask you, what's worse, and atheist who does bad things because they don't think they'll get in trouble, or a theist that does bad things because they think they're justified by the highest source of authority?

Actually, atheism starts on the presumption that there's no god. Atheism = a lack of God. Therefore, it starts on a presumption as well. Agnosticism starts on no presumptions, as it's definition states that it's impossible to know the reality of a god.

A belief in God HAS HURT LITTLE CHILDREN. This has been documented in various news stories. Parents have prayed for their child and not trusted modern medicine because they though god was going to heal their child. Then when the child dies they say it was gods plan. How does god not cause harm in this situation? 

A belief in no God has led to humanistic teachings of Eugenics which slaughtered and sterilized millions in the name of racial superiority. I'd like to ask those that let their children die: Which religious text was used when you decided to let your kid die? In many, if not all, situations, I question if it was their self-made religion that caused the death, or a real command by God. If it's the former, it's not Gods fault, only the parent. I don't remember a specific Biblical command that says 'if you kid is sick, let 'em die'.

I could also point to Christian hospitals in America that have saved millions of lives due to their values, as an offset against those that are foolish enough not to let doctors help their kids.

 

 



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

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antfromtashkent on 07 April 2009

@ mrstickball

"A belief in no God has led to humanistic teachings of Eugenics which slaughtered and sterilized millions in the name of racial superiority."

I was hoping to stay away from that >_



mrstickball on 07 April 2009

antfromtashkent -

That is my point. If you are going to claim God caused harm, it's like arguing that evolution directly caused millions of people to die.

The fact of the matter is that God didn't cause anyone to die. Neither did evolution. However, stupid and wicked people used their source texts (in the Bible, or Darwin's Origin of Species) to bend and melt to their will, to subjugate others.

If you want to claim God killed people, then you have to accept there's a God, and He actually has physical involvement in the world, which caused the death. If you want to argue that is not the case, but the source text causes instabilities in the reader, thus perverting their worldview, then my argument against the atheist-eugenics still stands.

Thus why my first argument is that people use things to cause harm. Not because the source is harmful - weather it's the Bible, evolution, a car, or a computer, but the person has malevolent purposes.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

Rath on 07 April 2009
Tyrannical said:
The Fury said:
Tyrannical said:

I think Atheism is like one of those new age self help religions, like modern Budhddism or Scientology.

The fact you compared atheism to a religion is funny enough.

Do you not see it as bad as them though? atheists are pushing their view onto others, just like the preachers in the street. I have a religious friend to also hates those people, mainly because he doesn't like the whole pushing religion on people but for them to come to accept their faith on their own.

 

 I'll step it up a level.

What do Atheists, Vampires, and Jewish lawyers have in common?

They all scream hystericaly when confronted by a cross in a public building.


But seriously, agnostics have a don't know, don't care , and don't understand what the big fuss is about religion. Which is completely the opposite of atheists. Atheists have taken a basic agnostic attitude, distorted it to militant absolutism, and added the worst aspects of religious zeal while trying to convert others. They basically made a religion out of it.

Actually agnosticism is the belief that its impossible to prove or disprove the existence of any supernatural being. So most of us atheists (people who believe there is no god) are also agnostic (as we don't think it can be proven).

Also a large part of the reason that some atheists seem so confrontational is because in America they are discriminated against check out this link for a study on it.

 



WessleWoggle on 07 April 2009
mrs.nordlead said:

do i like or agree with the add...no. am i offended by it...no. i am secure enough in what i believe and i realize that people who have never experienced a relationship with Jesus Christ, are not going to just understand or accept what i believe. i am a born again/bible believing christian(or what ever label you want to put on it). i think that so many people get hung up on "religion" and what they are going to have to give up and the rituals and regulations that they are going to have to follow....i am so sick of religion and religious people who are so hypocritical and so hung up on religion and rituals that they forget about people. they get up on their pious high horse and condemn people who have never been taught any different, instead of loving them and showing them the grace and freedom that Jesus has to offer. the idea that people who believe in god are not living their life may be very true, and if it is i am very said for those people. but i am free to live my life and do as i please. i am not bound by rules and regulations i am under grace and with that comes freedom. i do what the bible says because of my love for God.

i also get not too happy when people lump everyone who believes in "god/gods" in the same category. i dont believe in just any god, i believe in Jesus Christ, not because it was crammed down my throat or because it was the belief of my family. i believe in God because i have experienced a real, true relationship with him. i dont expect others to fully understand my belief or even accept it. there are many people who claim to believe in god or gods that i wish would keep their mouths shut because of the fact the so many people just assume that everyone who says "i believe in god" are all the same. and i wouldnt trust some of those people as far as i could throw them.


if God is not real and does not exist then i have nothing to loses...if however He is real and does exist(and i am talking about Jesus Christ, not just some random god)then unfortunately some of you would have a lot to lose. i heard someone pose this question once..."do you know everything there is to know" no "do you know half of everything there is to know" no "well lets just say that you know half of everything there is to know, is it possible that God exists in the half that you dont know".....just something to think about

one of my favorite quotes that i think is so true is "The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today is Christians who acknowledge Jesus with their lips then walk out the door and deny him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable."

 

About the quote I bolded, it's possible that all gods may exist in the information that we don't know... That's why I'm agnostic towards all gods. It's possible that they all may be influencial spirit beings... Who knows? I can't see the past or the afterlife, i'll make no assumtions, since I have nothing to base those assumtions on.

Something I like to ask christians is what was there personal experience with jesus like. Do you mind if I ask you that?

It could be possible that there's a positive force that people get in touch with, and you're in touch with it, but you just choose to call it Jesus Christ. It also might be possible you're crazy. Either way you seem like a nice person overall. You sound christ-like rather than christian. I like that. :) Too many christians come off as hateful.

 

 



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highwaystar101 on 07 April 2009
mrs.nordlead said:


if God is not real and does not exist then i have nothing to loses...if however He is real and does exist(and i am talking about Jesus Christ, not just some random god)then unfortunately some of you would have a lot to lose. i heard someone pose this question once..."do you know everything there is to know" no "do you know half of everything there is to know" no "well lets just say that you know half of everything there is to know, is it possible that God exists in the half that you dont know".....just something to think about

 

I believe that what you are refering to in this post is pascals wager, am I right?

If so I've always seen Pascals wager as a wierd arguement. It seems to me that if (theoretically) god* and Heaven was proven it would be foolish to place a bet on a specific god as your chances of backing the right one would be millions to one. Therefore it would be a more wise decision to just live life well, not back a single god and hope your high moral lifestyle would be enough to get into whichever heaven exists.

I dunno though...

* but it is not possible to determine which god



WessleWoggle on 07 April 2009
mrstickball said:
WessleWoggle said:

 

Actually, atheism starts on the presumption that there's no god. Atheism = a lack of God. Therefore, it starts on a presumption as well. Agnosticism starts on no presumptions, as it's definition states that it's impossible to know the reality of a god.

As an agnostic, I start on the presumtion that I don't know, and I don't know if I can know. I don't know is it's impossible to know, it might be possible...

As for atheism, they start on no presumtions either. When I was a little kid an an atheist, this was my line of logic: I don't see a god, therefore I do not believe in a god. Believers seem crazy, therefore I do not want to be a part of their delusion.

Not saying it's a delusion, but for the majority of believers, it seems to be a delusion.

A belief in no God has led to humanistic teachings of Eugenics which slaughtered and sterilized millions in the name of racial superiority. I'd like to ask those that let their children die: Which religious text was used when you decided to let your kid die? In many, if not all, situations, I question if it was their self-made religion that caused the death, or a real command by God. If it's the former, it's not Gods fault, only the parent. I don't remember a specific Biblical command that says 'if you kid is sick, let 'em die'.

Like bringing up extreme examples huh? The bible says you can stone you kids to death. Don't even get me started on leviticus...

I could also point to Christian hospitals in America that have saved millions of lives due to their values, as an offset against those that are foolish enough not to let doctors help their kids.

What does this have to do with the argument? 

 

 

 

 



WessleWoggle on 07 April 2009
antfromtashkent said:
WessleWoggle said:
antfromtashkent said:
WessleWoggle said:
antfromtashkent said:
WessleWoggle said:
antfromtashkent said:
WessleWoggle said:
antfromtashkent said:
WessleWoggle said:
 

1. You cannot blame god for every whackjob that mutters the name god after they killed 30 people..... you have absolutelly no proof that things would be any different if the "idea" of god was not there.

2. Where are you geting that information from?

3. So you think that the perfect antswer to people who ram religeon down people's throats is to create an ad that does the opposite for your cause for no reason at all?

 

 

 1. Umm, you're right, I can't blame god for every whackjob that murders in the name of their god. But I can say that it influenced them in a negative way.

2. Where do I get my information about sane people thinking prayer works? How about from going to church, and also hearing lots of stupid people tell stories about how they prayed and god answered their prayers.

3. I don't understand the question.

1. Same as last post but second part

2. How is that a bad thing? and how does that hurt the society?

3. That was reagading the original topic of this thread :P

 

1. It influenced them in a negative way because it supported their worldview. There might have been other factors that influenced them, but religion has played a major role with a lot of crazy people doing crazy things.

2. It wastes time, also it makes people less logical, instead of just assuming the correct thing, that they prayed and it came true through cause and effect, they assume they got what they wanted because a magic force called god did it.

3. I think the ad is justified, but it should have something about treating other people right. It makes atheists sounds immoral.

1. Once again lol... u can assume that since u dont know that if religeon dint exist if they would do the same thing.

2. What you said here and the way you worded it makes this no different than dribble from a religious nut... but the direct opposite. The fact that you dont believe in it does not make it not true and you have no rite to bash other peoples beliefs.

3. How is it justified? freedom of free speach blah blah blah yeh i know... but what is the point of it? to convert people away from religion? But what is he gaining from it? The ad is very distructive for no apparant reason..... Im not offended by it in anyway... because i believe that people have a rite to believe in nything they want.... and this is no different from religeous nuts pushing their religion onto others.

 

1. If religion didn't exist there would still be stupid ideas, I don't deny this.

2. Do you deny everything happens through cause and effect? How do i sound like a religious nut? I do not believe in prayer, prayer is useless any way you look at it. If there is a god they already know your hearts desires, you don't need to verbalize them within your mind.

3. The ad is justified because if I have to hear things about god all the time on the internet, on TV, then religious people should have to hear things about atheism one in a while too.

1. No longer needs to be discust

2. Once again........... Just because you dont believe it.. it dosent give you the right to bash the beliefs of others.

3. And.....once ...again...... just because religious people want to push religion that fine..... but since you have a problem w/ it do you really want to go down to that lvl and start pushing your beliefs onto others? Religion has been around for thousands of years..... and just because you dont believe in it dont claim that you know better.

 

2. I disagree, on the internet we should all speak our mind.

3. I don't push my beliefs, I just put them out there for people to reflect on. I don't think I know better than believers, we have just had different experiences.

 

 



mrstickball on 07 April 2009
WessleWoggle said:

About the quote I bolded, it's possible that all gods may exist in the information that we don't know... That's why I'm agnostic towards all gods. It's possible that they all may be infkuencial spirit beings... Who knows? I can't see the past or the afterlife, i'll make no assumtions, since I have nothing to base those assumtions on. 

Something I like to ask christians is what was there personal experience with jesus like. Do you mind if I ask you that?

It could be possible that there's a positive force that people get in touch with, and you're in touch with it, but you just choose to call it Jesus Christ. It also might be possible you're crazy. Either way you seem like a nice person overall. You sound christ-like rather than christian. I like that. :) Too many christians come off as hateful.

I hope that I haven't come off like that, and apologize if I have

But I would say that the attitudes of Christians is certainly not Christ-like. Christ never attacked, or hated toward the sinner. A thourough reading of the Gospels indicates the exact opposite. Jesus attacted the religious/political institution of the Pharisees, which ended up getting him killed....It's an attitude that many Christians have forgot to carry over the past 2,000 years. Far too often we show the lion to the sinner, and the lamb to the Christian...It should be the other way around: Focus on our own problems and sins, helping us to become more Christ-like, in an attept to show others what true Christianity is...Happiness, health, wealth, and care to both the sinner and the saint.

 



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

antfromtashkent on 07 April 2009
WessleWoggle said:
antfromtashkent said:
WessleWoggle said:
antfromtashkent said:
WessleWoggle said:
antfromtashkent said:
WessleWoggle said:
antfromtashkent said:
WessleWoggle said:
antfromtashkent said:
WessleWoggle said:
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2. I disagree, on the internet we should all speak our mind.

3. I don't push my beliefs, I just put them out there for people to reflect on. I don't think I know better either.

 

 

Lol i really wish i could answer the post u put up for Mrstickball, but ill stick to this one

2. You can absolutelly speak you mind.... but dont bash the beliefs of others by doing so
your direct quote ex:  "...prayer is useless any way you look at it...."

3. Wasnt even directed at you.... this was for the ad....