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Forums - Nintendo - Kizuna OVER 100 monsters on screen?

Viper1 said:
Words Of Wisdom said:
senortaco said:


"...The game boasts a battle system that allows over 100 monsters to appear on the screen at once.

At 10 frames per second.

Rogue Squadron II, a launch game on GC, boasted over 100 ships on screen at once with a few drops below 60 fps.  I'd like to think the Wii could do at least the same without dropping to 10 fps.

I never played RS2.  Was the level of detail on those ships adequate at all distances?  Simplistic AI?

I have this feeling that there's a level of exaggeration in that statement or that there's something missing from it.



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haxxiy said:
Because the RE4 engine didn't fit the Wii at all? Dunno... wasn't RE4:Wii itself actually the port of the PS2 version of the game?

 

RE4 Wii was mainly a port of the gamecube game. The PS2-Version was a port of the gamecube Re4 too, but the graphics was much worse because the ps2 had not nearly the graphical power of the gamecube.

The extra Missions of the PS2-Version are not in the gamecube game but in the Wii Version and this extra missions look like the PS2-Version. You can see clearly the graphicall differences to the main game.



masschamber said:
senortaco said:
haxxiy said:
Because the RE4 engine didn't fit the Wii at all? Dunno... wasn't RE4:Wii itself actually the port of the PS2 version of the game?

 

Idk, but it had all the extra content that the PS2 version had, so probably. That explains a bit, lol.

...But, as far as Kizuna goes it sounds like, for a company that was on the verge of disolve, they're trying to put alot into the game. Definitely want to see gameplay footage, I need a jRPG fix...haven't gotten it since Tales of Symphonia, lol.

 

It is the gamecube for the source materiel and engine, all of the meshes, textures, and lighting are gamecube, but the ps2 content was simply added on,

anyway RE4 handled around 20 enemies, you can watch a video on youtube that gets the count to 23, it wasn't designed around handling huge enemy counts, and they probably just shoe horned the design to work

Are you sure of that? Because even the PC version was ported from the PS2.

 



 

 

 

 

 

famousringo said:
Procrastinato said:

You guys realize that an "enemy" can be a single quad (two triangles), with a texture on it, yeah?

Lots of games use that kind of mechanism as a level-of-detail system. If its off in the distance, its often hard to tell if its a real animated character, or just a 3D sprite.

Even Lair (PS3 dragons & armies game) used this kind of LoD mechanism to have "thousands" of guys in the playing area, and even visible, at once.  The PS2 Kessen series had similar mechanisms.  All this implies is that the authors of Kizuna were clever about their LoD system -- it doesn't say anything about the Wii in general.

That said, I am really looking forward to this game!

 

Good post.

IMO, programmers should be using clever tricks like these to scale up the scope of their games, rather than relying on raw power to do the scaling for them.

They actually do all the time, no modern game can be reasonably coded on a console without such optimizations. When I studied a course on 3d graphics I remember seeing tricks like these in quake II level engines, so I'm talking about more than 10 years ago.

All modern 3d engines for example allow to create a separate 3d scene for distant objects (the evolution of the old skycube) such as swarm of enemies running on a hill near the horizon, that allows to simulate scale with much less detail and thus much less performance hit.

 



"All you need in life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain

"..." - Gordon Freeman

Words Of Wisdom said:
Viper1 said:
Words Of Wisdom said:
senortaco said:


"...The game boasts a battle system that allows over 100 monsters to appear on the screen at once.

At 10 frames per second.

Rogue Squadron II, a launch game on GC, boasted over 100 ships on screen at once with a few drops below 60 fps.  I'd like to think the Wii could do at least the same without dropping to 10 fps.

I never played RS2.  Was the level of detail on those ships adequate at all distances?  Simplistic AI?

I have this feeling that there's a level of exaggeration in that statement or that there's something missing from it.

The Rogue Squadron series also used level-of-detail mechanisms that included imposter sprites off in the distance.  On top of that, in a spaceship game, you don't have to skin meshes to animated skeletons, nor animate the skeleton to begin with.  Everything is "hard" geometry -- very easy to model, very fast to render.  As such, thei level of detail mechanisms don't need to be as aggressive as a game with "people" characters.  Spaceship "characters" are cheap.

I always get a chuckle when people point out RS and its ilk, on the GameCube, as examples of its horsepower, for this reason.  Spaceships are approximately one bazillion times closer, than animated characters, or detailed indoor environments, to being those tiny 1-or-2 tiny texture triangles they use to spit out performance numbers for graphics chipsets... i.e. very specialized, very easy, very fast.  Then again, obviously they can still be used to make some phenominal games -- RS was awesome, although it doesn't prove anything about the GC or Wii's power, like people like to believe it does.



 

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Words Of Wisdom said:
Viper1 said:
Words Of Wisdom said:
senortaco said:

...The game boasts a battle system that allows over 100 monsters to appear on the screen at once.

At 10 frames per second.

Rogue Squadron II, a launch game on GC, boasted over 100 ships on screen at once with a few drops below 60 fps.  I'd like to think the Wii could do at least the same without dropping to 10 fps.

I never played RS2.  Was the level of detail on those ships adequate at all distances?  Simplistic AI?

I have this feeling that there's a level of exaggeration in that statement or that there's something missing from it.

The AI was simple with various groups moving in unison though there were dozens of groups and different ship types between Rebels and the Empire.

LOD shifted with depth but this is not aknock on RSII but a matter of being used in practically every 3D game since forever.

haxxiy said:

Are you sure of that? Because even the PC version was ported from the PS2.

100% positive that RE4 was based on the GC build.

 

 

 

 

 



The rEVOLution is not being televised

@Soriku- I KNOW RIGHT! I figured the 100 monsters on screen would get them in and be enough to have them click on the link, lol. I didn't know it would turn in to a tech battle however. *sigh*

The only think that I hope is that it comes over like it was mentioned before as being. =p



The Interweb is about overreaction, this is what makes it great!

...Imagine how boring the interweb would be if everyone thought logically?

well I think what they meant was "its coming over but we can't talk about it yet."



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haxxiy said:
Mario 128 tech demo, star wars rogue squadron 3, RE4 possibly matches the polly count of both when 20+ characters on screen, and F-Zero had up to 30 at rock steady 60fps.

And considering Wii is 2 GC's ducktaped together, we already know how awesome the Wii could make it right.  Actually people should go watch the Spacworld 2000 GC Tech demo, "Rebirth", on youtube so they can full understand what GC could do.  System never gets enough credit.