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Forums - General - You will earn what Obama wants you to earn.

SciFiBoy on 22 March 2009
TheRealMafoo said:
SciFiBoy said:
TheRealMafoo said:
SciFiBoy said:

i am a Libertarian, so no-one has tried what i have suggested yet

 

Not to come across as a jerk, but nothing you can suggest has not been tried. It just hasn't worked.

The saying absolute power corrupts absolutely fits very well here.

Some of the worst atrocities in humanity started with the best of intentions.

forget it, you clearly dont understand my points, neither does Kasz, ill just leave you wondering, i got my points, im sorry that you didnt

 

It's not that I don't get your points, it's that centralizing power fails, in everything.

It's why I am a libertarian (American version). Decentralize power as much as posable. Push power down to the states, and then down to the countries, and down to the people.

In history, there has never been a government that was given more power, and became less corrupt. Ever.

To that argument, when has a law ever been passed in the US, that gave Washington less power? And, in the next 4 years, the power given to washington will greatly increase. (Washington will buy it).

Herein lies the problem we are at today.

 

when did i talk about doing that?



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Kasz216 on 22 March 2009
SciFiBoy said:
TheRealMafoo said:
SciFiBoy said:
TheRealMafoo said:
SciFiBoy said:

i am a Libertarian, so no-one has tried what i have suggested yet

 

Not to come across as a jerk, but nothing you can suggest has not been tried. It just hasn't worked.

The saying absolute power corrupts absolutely fits very well here.

Some of the worst atrocities in humanity started with the best of intentions.

forget it, you clearly dont understand my points, neither does Kasz, ill just leave you wondering, i got my points, im sorry that you didnt

 

It's not that I don't get your points, it's that centralizing power fails, in everything.

It's why I am a libertarian (American version). Decentralize power as much as posable. Push power down to the states, and then down to the countries, and down to the people.

In history, there has never been a government that was given more power, and became less corrupt. Ever.

To that argument, when has a law ever been passed in the US, that gave Washington less power? And, in the next 4 years, the power given to washington will greatly increase. (Washington will buy it).

Herein lies the problem we are at today.

 

when did i talk about doing that?

It's the only way to get to a Libertarian socialist world.

Because for a Libertarian socalist world to work... you basically have to do what Marx suggested. 

Brainwash people more or less.  Well forcefully educate differently is a better world... from birth.

We would never see a Libertarian socialist world.

 

 



TheRealMafoo on 22 March 2009
Final-Fan said:
TheRealMafoo said:
SciFiBoy said:
Karl Marx never provided a detailed description as to how communism would function as an economic system, but it is understood that a communist economy would consist of common ownership of the means of production, culminating in the negation of the concept of private ownership of capital, which referred to the means of production in Marxian terminology. Unlike socialism, which is compatible with a market economy, a communist economy consists of local or communal democratic planning.

also from wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism
From your link:

"As a political ideology, communism is usually considered to be a branch of socialism;"

So it's ok to include the communistic definition with socialism.

But aren't you claiming to define socialism?  If so, then even if we say that communism is a subset of socialism you cannot define socialism by describing facts that are only true of communism. 

It's like this:
If socialism is "a car"
and communism is "a red car"
and you say "socialism can be described as an automobile that is red" then you're wrong. 

Am I misinterpreting what you've been saying?

 

Yes. I gave the Wikipedia definition of Socialism, and he said it was not socialism because it was Communism.

I then asked him to give me a economically socialistic country that met his definition. He said one does not yet exist.

To use your analogy, if I said “my car is socialistic”, he would then say “No it's not, because it's red”



SciFiBoy on 22 March 2009
Kasz216 said:
SciFiBoy said:
TheRealMafoo said:
SciFiBoy said:
TheRealMafoo said:
SciFiBoy said:

i am a Libertarian, so no-one has tried what i have suggested yet

 

Not to come across as a jerk, but nothing you can suggest has not been tried. It just hasn't worked.

The saying absolute power corrupts absolutely fits very well here.

Some of the worst atrocities in humanity started with the best of intentions.

forget it, you clearly dont understand my points, neither does Kasz, ill just leave you wondering, i got my points, im sorry that you didnt

 

It's not that I don't get your points, it's that centralizing power fails, in everything.

It's why I am a libertarian (American version). Decentralize power as much as posable. Push power down to the states, and then down to the countries, and down to the people.

In history, there has never been a government that was given more power, and became less corrupt. Ever.

To that argument, when has a law ever been passed in the US, that gave Washington less power? And, in the next 4 years, the power given to washington will greatly increase. (Washington will buy it).

Herein lies the problem we are at today.

 

when did i talk about doing that?

It's the only way to get to a Libertarian socialist world.

Because for a Libertarian socalist world to work... you basically have to do what Marx suggested. 

Brainwash people.

 

 

wtf? i dont understand how you came to that conclusion at all

i really think youve confused my points somewhere along the line, i want people to have freedom and good public services, while maintaining a socialist economic system to make sure that the economy works for the people, i would do this by creating localised banking systems to benefit the local community

 



Kasz216 on 22 March 2009
SciFiBoy said:
Kasz216 said:
SciFiBoy said:
TheRealMafoo said:
SciFiBoy said:
TheRealMafoo said:
SciFiBoy said:

i am a Libertarian, so no-one has tried what i have suggested yet

 

Not to come across as a jerk, but nothing you can suggest has not been tried. It just hasn't worked.

The saying absolute power corrupts absolutely fits very well here.

Some of the worst atrocities in humanity started with the best of intentions.

forget it, you clearly dont understand my points, neither does Kasz, ill just leave you wondering, i got my points, im sorry that you didnt

 

It's not that I don't get your points, it's that centralizing power fails, in everything.

It's why I am a libertarian (American version). Decentralize power as much as posable. Push power down to the states, and then down to the countries, and down to the people.

In history, there has never been a government that was given more power, and became less corrupt. Ever.

To that argument, when has a law ever been passed in the US, that gave Washington less power? And, in the next 4 years, the power given to washington will greatly increase. (Washington will buy it).

Herein lies the problem we are at today.

 

when did i talk about doing that?

It's the only way to get to a Libertarian socialist world.

Because for a Libertarian socalist world to work... you basically have to do what Marx suggested. 

Brainwash people.

 

 

wtf? i dont understand how you came to that conclusion at all

i really think youve confused my points somewhere along the line, i want people to have freedom and good public services, while maintaining a socialist economic system to make sure that the economy works for the people, i would do this by creating localised banking systems to benefit the local community

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism

This is what your talking about right?

As long as people are who they are they will struggle compete and act in capitalist ways.  Capitalism isn't new.  Capitalism is how people naturally act. 

It's just capitalism takes out the state from interfering with peoples natural insticts for competition.  Whether or not this is good or bad is argueable... but your basically argueing from a position of...

"What if i person isn't a person."

It's trying to merge modified anarcism but without all the bad things that entails.



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SciFiBoy on 22 March 2009
Kasz216 said:
SciFiBoy said:
Kasz216 said:
SciFiBoy said:
TheRealMafoo said:
SciFiBoy said:
TheRealMafoo said:
SciFiBoy said:

i am a Libertarian, so no-one has tried what i have suggested yet

 

Not to come across as a jerk, but nothing you can suggest has not been tried. It just hasn't worked.

The saying absolute power corrupts absolutely fits very well here.

Some of the worst atrocities in humanity started with the best of intentions.

forget it, you clearly dont understand my points, neither does Kasz, ill just leave you wondering, i got my points, im sorry that you didnt

 

It's not that I don't get your points, it's that centralizing power fails, in everything.

It's why I am a libertarian (American version). Decentralize power as much as posable. Push power down to the states, and then down to the countries, and down to the people.

In history, there has never been a government that was given more power, and became less corrupt. Ever.

To that argument, when has a law ever been passed in the US, that gave Washington less power? And, in the next 4 years, the power given to washington will greatly increase. (Washington will buy it).

Herein lies the problem we are at today.

 

when did i talk about doing that?

It's the only way to get to a Libertarian socialist world.

Because for a Libertarian socalist world to work... you basically have to do what Marx suggested. 

Brainwash people.

 

 

wtf? i dont understand how you came to that conclusion at all

i really think youve confused my points somewhere along the line, i want people to have freedom and good public services, while maintaining a socialist economic system to make sure that the economy works for the people, i would do this by creating localised banking systems to benefit the local community

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism

This is what your talking about right?

 

yes and no, to a less extreme degree than the conclusion you jumped too



SnesTea on 22 March 2009
SciFiBoy said:
TheRealMafoo said:
SciFiBoy said:

i think socialism is much better than capitalism

 

Why?

 

more beneficial for the people, everyone can afford healthcare and education, taxation is fairer, better regulated financial sector and stuff

More fail. See: Soviet Union.

 



SciFiBoy on 22 March 2009
Snesboy said:
SciFiBoy said:
TheRealMafoo said:
SciFiBoy said:

i think socialism is much better than capitalism

 

Why?

 

more beneficial for the people, everyone can afford healthcare and education, taxation is fairer, better regulated financial sector and stuff

More fail. See: Soviet Union.

 

 

you really dont get it, do you? the Soviet Union and China are examples of Authoritarian Communism, its not what im talking about at all



Kasz216 on 22 March 2009
SciFiBoy said:
Snesboy said:
SciFiBoy said:
TheRealMafoo said:
SciFiBoy said:

i think socialism is much better than capitalism

 

Why?

 

more beneficial for the people, everyone can afford healthcare and education, taxation is fairer, better regulated financial sector and stuff

More fail. See: Soviet Union.

 

 

you really dont get it, do you? the Soviet Union and China are examples of Authoritarian Communism, its not what im talking about at all

Explain how you plan to get from where we are now... to liberal socialism without an authrotarian state to make sure people follow along rather then use their agression to make things their own way.

Also... you do realize that in your system you are giving MASSIVE amounts of money to the government... and that money is a form of power right?



SciFiBoy on 22 March 2009
Kasz216 said:
SciFiBoy said:
Snesboy said:
SciFiBoy said:
TheRealMafoo said:
SciFiBoy said:

i think socialism is much better than capitalism

 

Why?

 

more beneficial for the people, everyone can afford healthcare and education, taxation is fairer, better regulated financial sector and stuff

More fail. See: Soviet Union.

 

 

you really dont get it, do you? the Soviet Union and China are examples of Authoritarian Communism, its not what im talking about at all

Explain how you plan to get from where we are now... to liberal socialism without an authrotarian state to make sure people follow along rather then use their agression to make things their own way.

 

 

non violent revolution of course, its all part of the plan