No I was referring to later in a marriage when the sex dies out. Does that mean a husband is being kicked off the real ladder, or is there something else we haven't explored yet? It wouldn't be likely he was getting kicked off because it's usually a gradual thing, not a "falling into the abyss" encounter. It's almost as if he slowly climbs down the real ladder and is coaxed to back up periodically.

Your theory is good. It would also cover cheating. That's what would happen when you go too low on the real ladder and someone is above you.

Ow yeah...that's right. That requires some thinking. Perhaps the married women becomes a male-female hybrid when it comes to the ladder-theory. The married woman still has two ladders, but the sex ladder becomes divided like the man's ladder is. Instead of "actively pursue", "drunk and brag" and "only when drunk and don't brag" you'd get the female version: "would put marriage at stake for this one", "husband", "would not come near it". The husband is then definatly the centre, and serves as just that, an in-between. When the woman requires his service, he get's a call so to speak and otherwise...screw him!

I was once the lover of a married woman... I think the philospohy holds some truth. 

Yeah, unfortunately the only thing Ladder Theory covers regarding marriage is this quick passage:

"In effect, he's doomed the whole rest of his life to meaninglessness unless he marries this girl. This of course is just trading one type of doom for another."

Now obviously marriage is not considered good by any means. We already come to know this. However it leaves a lot to the imagination if any changes to Ladder Theory need to occur once marriage is rotting, which is as natural as an apple eventually rotting from within.

Esmoreit, I like that thinking. It could very well hold some truth in it.

Esmoreit, you are well versed in the teachings of Ldder Theory too? I was not made aware of this, I blame Onyx.

As I said earlier what Onyx says is true, but I also beive the man gets 2 ladders after marriage. The situatoin for the man then becomes like the woman's, with a real and a "just friends" ladder. Obviously the wife starts off at the top, but then it drops off depending on how they handle problems, enabling someone else to out-rank her.

No. A man can never have two ladders. It goes against the fundamental thinking a man is born with. I was once married. It's a tough subject that I do not wish to get into, because it was a doomed time for me also. Trust me though, there is still one ladder. I believe the subject of cheating can be presented under the subsection of "loyalty" in Ladder Theory. You still desire to have sex with the other women but you place loyalty on your ladder and only women above the word qualify for affairhood. Anyone below is merely not worth the risk. So while your standards, may stay the same, the loyalty clause may make you raise who you're willing to have sex with. You may sub out "loyalty" for others words also, like "guilt" or "not wanting to get kicked out of my house", etc.

Yes, however do you not agree that the "loyalty zone" can just as easily be its own ladder? While the principle is different than the Friends Ladder for women, the Loyalty Ladder would still be the same principle. People you will just never have sex with no matter what, becaause they are not worth it.

@onyx/vlad/esmoreit:

You guys are crazy.

I get what you're saying but this has been presented to the creator before and he goes over this in Ladder Theory. Remember this passage?

Can't the two ladders be represented as just one big ladder for women?

A lot of people have suggested that women really only have one ladder, or men really have two, and both are completely missing the point of the 1-2 ladder scheme. Yes you COULD say that guys who women won't fuck are way down on their only ladder and you COULD say that guys have a separate ladder for women they wouldn't fuck.

The point of saying women have two ladders and men have 1 ladder is to illustrate the fundamental difference in outlook between men and women. The point is that for men, there is a ranking that takes place based on the pie charts and women get put on the ladder and that's it. How much do I want to fuck her is the fundamental unit of a man's thought.

A woman on the other hand, seems able to recognize atrributes in a man that would make her want to fuck him and yet still not fuck him, either because he is too good a friend, or because she just 'doesn't see him that way' or by some strange mystery of human chemistry. So the metaphorof the two ladders is to illustrate this fundamental difference in thought.

You see. It's not about the actions people take, but their fundamental differences in thought based on their sex. The man is still always rating women for a single ladder, but in marriage there may be more conditions to actually do something about it. Or in some guys cases, no restrictions at all.

Mmm the loyalty clause, that should be an added passage in the theory. It had never crossed my mind at least.

Funny thing is...according to my hypothesis (not theory, it isn't tested yet) and that of Onyx (I have not yet seen the loyalty clause taken into the ladder theory0 is that it makes the mindset of both man en woman the same. They both get the same ladder which was unheard of before - e.g. both get a top-section that reads "would be willing to risk marriage for".

Perhaps to have a fruitful relationship, male and female ladders should never converge.

But from practice I oculd conclude that a marriage can be succesful ladderwise if certain aspects of pre-marrital or even pre-relationship are kept intact...