Yes, you can get good with certain characters, obviously, but you can't deny that if you go out against certain characters, it is practically impossible to win.

Imagine a Ganondorf vs. Zelda match, both characters playing them are very good. Obviously, Zelda will win because of unfair advantages she has with this new engine. I'm not saying my friends and myself are very very good, but let's just say our 1 vs. 1 matches are intense, where Perfect Shields, Shield+Grab and Air Combos shine at their finest. Those duels usually finish with the other playing having 1 stock left. Sadly, the winner is mostly decided by who gets the cheap character, or who uses the easiest Smash! attack to abuse. I've experienced it more than once in Brawl, and I usually lose because of this.

In Smash Bros. on the N64 and Melee on the GCN, even the biggest Smasher can't possibly win without pulling out insane combos first. In Brawl, the stun rate is so low, you can't chain anything, or practically anything. So what do you do? You get defensive with characters, wait for their next move and then grab + start comboing or other moves like that. I hate this defensive vs. offensive distinction that is easily noticeable in Brawl. Ganondorf can't be good offensively now. Wolf is good both ways. This is what I find cheap and unfair.

Feel free to say I just suck and don't want to get used to another engine, but the slow gameplay of Brawl was definitely a turn off for me. Don't forget, everyone is entitled to their opinions.

Like I said, new Smash players will definitely prefer the old Brawl. "Veterans" will prefer Brawl+. By just looking at the people posting here, it's obvious.

Do even know what your saying? You can see the difference in both games. Watch Taj(the best Mewtwo ever) face M2K's Marth and it gets completely destroyed. In both games some character are just noticably horrible. Prime examples in Melee are Pichu and Mewtwo.

Not every character was good. Ask any pro player witha low/bottom tier main in Melee, they'll admit they suck. Gimpyfish admitted multiple times that Bowser sucks and almost everybody will agree. This is true for Brawl as well. Ganon and Bowser both were bad in Melee, what game where you playing? Ganon is mid tier, Boswer is the fourth worst character in the game... Also Jigglypuff is tied for 6th with Falcon. Falco v Ganon is 7 - 3 in Falco's favor.

When weas the last time you played. Camping is lame And once you face the better players you rarely see it in Brawl anymore. Hell, planking is banned in all  major tournies. If your getting stopped by a projectile spammer, you just suck. And ever one will say it. There are plenty of way to get around it. Ever try mind games?

On Brawl+ I love Melee and prefer it to Brawl. But Brawl is its own game. If aI want fast paced action I pop in Melee, but I want to play Brawl for what it is.

Also your opinions of Brawl seem to be stuck in the first few months of the metagame. Zelda sucks in Brawl, NONE of her moves are spammable. Even her over B which way too laggy to spam. Wolf's D smash is practically his only good one(oh Wolf sucks too, if you notice, he's sinking down the tier list pretty fast), and if you spam that you can't KO untill well over 200. If you want to make a point at least use better examples.

I do agree though that Brawl is more defensive but that doesn't mean you can't play offensive and still be good, see?Of course, there are times you have to play defensively, but this was true with Melee too. For example Jigglypuff v Marth.

Oh and also. Zelda, Wolf, Ike(especially him), and Lucas all suck. Pit and DK are good but not that good. You complain about balance yet you don't even know which characters are good... Try Falco, GnW, or King Dedede instead. They are much betterthan most of those you listed.

Dude, this thread is here to promote Brawl+, not talk about how much I suck at Brawl. You won't affect my feelings one bit by doing so. And yes, I stopped playing intensively after the first few months the game came out. I doubt the game played differently after a few months.

Also, I KNOW Brawl is another game. It will never be Melee, I KNOW. Stop repeating this people.

By the way, I listed a FEW characters which I find either too good or too bad in Brawl. I know Game and Watch is still good and that King Dedede has a lot of potential. Heck, you talked about Bowser, why would anyone not consider Bowser one of the best characters in Brawl? He's truly a "pwning" machine if you know how to use him. o_O

Also, you want to start talking about tier lists in Melee? Haha, don't make me laugh. I barely believe in tier lists, but for some reason, Brawl seems to be the only one where you can notice unfair advantages on some characters, thus a tier list can easily be made for that game. Still, I believe some characters should be way up than they are right now (example: Peach, Samus). They can exist, but I will disagree with them most of the time.

Lastly, Ganondorf was bad in Melee? Are you crazy? Man, if only I knew you in real life, I would show you just how good he is. When people say "Dude, Ganondorf is slow. I'm taking Fox/Sheik/Falco/Marth and you're going down", I just laugh at them and defeat them with not one single stock lost. It's just too funny.

Still, I will repeat this: This thread is here to promote Brawl+, not talk about how much I suck at Brawl. Thank you!

How is it obvious, I've been playing Smash Bros since the first one came out and I prefer Brawl.

Look, just try Brawl+ before even saying stuff like that. You never know, you might like it better too.

This is supposed to be a fun project, and all I get from you people is that you're not interested at all. Just don't post here if you guys don't even want to try it or contribute to the project. It might be better that way to be honest.

I think you are over reacting. The characters are all good in Brawl, if you play with them more you will get better with them. It's much more balanced than Melee.

Just wait, you'll get the players who prefer Melee in here soon enough.

I think.

THIS! I have friends that can kick ur ass with peach, Mr. game, R.O.B., Olimar..... you just need to learn how to play at that levl

Well maybe not.

But just wait through the haters, it's fine.

For what it's worth, this project is amazing. I'm not going to try it out myself, since I prefer Brawl's physics and combat mechanics, but the rebalancing of characters sounds very nice, especially since I main Ganondorf.