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Forums - Gaming - How Sony and Microsoft are possibly destroying hardcore gaming

Legend11 on 16 March 2009
kirby007 said:
Legend11 said:
RolStoppable said:

But the new problem that occurs is that the new audience (from here on out refered to as casuals) who is buying Wiis and DSes is said to be very unstable. When will they get bored of gaming? How many games do they even buy in the first place? When will the Wii bubble burst?

The truth is that the future of hardcore gaming is entirely dependent on those casuals. If they stop buying the cash-ins of third party publishers, they are initiating a chain reaction that is going to take down hardcore gaming. The only company left standing to deliver hardcore games could be Nintendo as they wouldn't be affected by people who stop gaming. They would make less money, yes. But they still have the funds to continue to make games, because they are making money off of everyone who buys their products, not just the casuals.

 

So it's the "expanded audience" that is going to save hardcore gaming?  Grandparents, soccer moms, etc, that bought a Wii for Wii Fit, Wii Sports, and other casual games are going to be the ones we'll be playing against in FPS games?  Seriously there's a reason why games like Wii Fit, Wii Play, My Fitness Coach, etc are trouncing hardcore games on the Wii (well the ones that don't star Mario).  The Wii is no more friendly a place to hardcore games than HD consoles.  Just ask Capcom about it or even EA since the reason their hardcore sports games are underperforming is because of the Wii and its marketshare.

As for HD gaming, sure it's expensive but at least companies like Microsoft are attempting to help third-parties and give hardcore gamers fantastic games until the size of the market can catch up and support HD gaming.  Nintendo's efforts?  They passed on The Conduit when High Voltage was begging for a publisher.  Yeah that's a real friend to helping hardcore efforts on their console.  Anyways this will all be moot next generation when all the consoles are likely to be HD.  In the meantime some people can celebrate EA devoting half their resources to Wii.  I wonder how many Sims games, Wii Sports knockoffs, kids licenced trash, and other garbage will come of that when those games outsell their other efforts on that system, 

As for me I'll go back to playing Gears of War 2 and other kickass hardcore games and let others lament the so-called fall of HD hardcore gaming.

yo got rol roll'd

 

 



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kirby007 on 16 March 2009
Legend11 said:
kirby007 said:
Legend11 said:
RolStoppable said:

But the new problem that occurs is that the new audience (from here on out refered to as casuals) who is buying Wiis and DSes is said to be very unstable. When will they get bored of gaming? How many games do they even buy in the first place? When will the Wii bubble burst?

The truth is that the future of hardcore gaming is entirely dependent on those casuals. If they stop buying the cash-ins of third party publishers, they are initiating a chain reaction that is going to take down hardcore gaming. The only company left standing to deliver hardcore games could be Nintendo as they wouldn't be affected by people who stop gaming. They would make less money, yes. But they still have the funds to continue to make games, because they are making money off of everyone who buys their products, not just the casuals.

 

So it's the "expanded audience" that is going to save hardcore gaming?  Grandparents, soccer moms, etc, that bought a Wii for Wii Fit, Wii Sports, and other casual games are going to be the ones we'll be playing against in FPS games?  Seriously there's a reason why games like Wii Fit, Wii Play, My Fitness Coach, etc are trouncing hardcore games on the Wii (well the ones that don't star Mario).  The Wii is no more friendly a place to hardcore games than HD consoles.  Just ask Capcom about it or even EA since the reason their hardcore sports games are underperforming is because of the Wii and its marketshare.

As for HD gaming, sure it's expensive but at least companies like Microsoft are attempting to help third-parties and give hardcore gamers fantastic games until the size of the market can catch up and support HD gaming.  Nintendo's efforts?  They passed on The Conduit when High Voltage was begging for a publisher.  Yeah that's a real friend to helping hardcore efforts on their console.  Anyways this will all be moot next generation when all the consoles are likely to be HD.  In the meantime some people can celebrate EA devoting half their resources to Wii.  I wonder how many Sims games, Wii Sports knockoffs, kids licenced trash, and other garbage will come of that when those games outsell their other efforts on that system, 

As for me I'll go back to playing Gears of War 2 and other kickass hardcore games and let others lament the so-called fall of HD hardcore gaming.

yo got rol roll'd

 

 

 

you are the one on the right i hope?



 "I think people should define the word crap" - Kirby007

Join the Prediction League http://www.vgchartz.com/predictions

Instead of seeking to convince others, we can be open to changing our own minds, and seek out information that contradicts our own steadfast point of view. Maybe it’ll turn out that those who disagree with you actually have a solid grasp of the facts. There’s a slight possibility that, after all, you’re the one who’s wrong.

Jo21 on 16 March 2009

no publishers ask for it, it's not sony fault.
and either way they are not forced to do 70 million + games.



Lostplanet22 on 16 March 2009

Companies like EA and Ubisoft found a way to drastically cut the costs of HD games start a company in China/India and let them do a part of the work (animation, CGI, name it) . For example if the cost of an employee is around 10.000$ a month and they have 100 employees the cost of making a game can be 12 million$ a year but if they outsource like EA (let we say 50 Chinese employees who's cost is 2000$ a month) 50 employees who's cost is 10.000$ a month + 50 employees who's cost is 2000$ a month= 7.2 million for a year or saving 4.8 million$ thx to outscourcing.



 

Legend11 on 16 March 2009
wfz said:
Legend11 said:
RolStoppable said:

But the new problem that occurs is that the new audience (from here on out refered to as casuals) who is buying Wiis and DSes is said to be very unstable. When will they get bored of gaming? How many games do they even buy in the first place? When will the Wii bubble burst?

The truth is that the future of hardcore gaming is entirely dependent on those casuals. If they stop buying the cash-ins of third party publishers, they are initiating a chain reaction that is going to take down hardcore gaming. The only company left standing to deliver hardcore games could be Nintendo as they wouldn't be affected by people who stop gaming. They would make less money, yes. But they still have the funds to continue to make games, because they are making money off of everyone who buys their products, not just the casuals.

 

So it's the "expanded audience" that is going to save hardcore gaming?  Grandparents, soccer moms, etc, that bought a Wii for Wii Fit, Wii Sports, and other casual games are going to be the ones we'll be playing against in FPS games?  Seriously there's a reason why games like Wii Fit, Wii Play, My Fitness Coach, etc are trouncing hardcore games on the Wii (well the ones that don't star Mario).  The Wii is no more friendly a place to hardcore games than HD consoles.  Just ask Capcom about it or even EA since the reason their hardcore sports games are underperforming is because of the Wii and its marketshare.

As for HD gaming, sure it's expensive but at least companies like Microsoft are attempting to help third-parties and give hardcore gamers fantastic games until the size of the market can catch up and support HD gaming.  Nintendo's efforts?  They passed on The Conduit when High Voltage was begging for a publisher.  Yeah that's a real friend to helping hardcore efforts on their console.  Anyways this will all be moot next generation when all the consoles are likely to be HD.  In the meantime people can celebrate EA devoting half their resources to Wii.  I wonder how many Sims games, Wii Sports knockoffs, kids licenced trash, and other garbage will come of that when those games outsell their other efforts on that system, 

As for me I'll go back to playing Gears of War 2 and other kickass hardcore games and let others lament the so-called fall of HD hardcore gaming.

 

In regards to the first paragraph, I don't think you understand Rol's point. Those "casual" players won't be playing against us, but the money they're giving to developers by buying "casual" games is helping fund the risky "hardcore" games.

Second paragraph, what the hell? High Voltage begging for a publisher? Hahahahahhaa, that's one of the silliest things I've ever heard. They didn't want a publisher until they were close to finishing the game because they didn't want the publisher to get in the way of development. When they started searching around for publishers, they had quite a few publishers interested and wanting to pick the game up. They ended up choosing Sega, is that a problem that they didn't pick Nintendo? Rol never even said that Nintendo was saving hardcore gaming, he said that the "casual" players were saving it, so you're entire point is moot.

Did you even read the OP? You're not arguing his points at all.


I guess you must not have been around when IGN was basically begging publishers on High Voltage's behalf to take on The Conduit.

 



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salaminizer on 16 March 2009

I'm supporting them buying Peggle, is that enough?



the words above were backed by NUCLEAR WEAPONS!

Legend11 on 16 March 2009
RolStoppable said:
Legend11 said:
wfz said:

In regards to the first paragraph, I don't think you understand Rol's point. Those "casual" players won't be playing against us, but the money they're giving to developers by buying "casual" games is helping fund the risky "hardcore" games.

Second paragraph, what the hell? High Voltage begging for a publisher? Hahahahahhaa, that's one of the silliest things I've ever heard. They didn't want a publisher until they were close to finishing the game because they didn't want the publisher to get in the way of development. When they started searching around for publishers, they had quite a few publishers interested and wanting to pick the game up. They ended up choosing Sega, is that a problem that they didn't pick Nintendo? Rol never even said that Nintendo was saving hardcore gaming, he said that the "casual" players were saving it, so you're entire point is moot.

Did you even read the OP? You're not arguing his points at all.


I guess you must not have been around when IGN was basically begging publishers on High Voltage's behalf to take on The Conduit.

http://wii.ign.com/articles/924/924728p1.html

There, read it up. Looks like HVS had all the time they wanted to decide on a publisher.

 

http://wii.ign.com/articles/949/949610p2.html

"One of the major challenges that we discovered when moving forward with the project was that most publishers we spoke to had no (zero, less than zero, terribly less than zero) interest in seeing what we could do with higher-end graphics, tight gameplay, and integrated mechanics. "The Wii is not a hardcore market," and variations on that theme were common refrains.

Now, to say that we, as a company said "Eff 'em!" would be… well, actually, it would be pretty accurate. We knew there was risk, but many of us owned Wiis and really wanted something we could take home and play the ever-living-hell out of. This is not to say there were not moments of panic, or doubt, or all of those roiling emotions associated with the internal mental struggle that happens before you take the plunge, grab the girl, and plant one on her, hoping against hope that she won't slap you.

We started creating, building, and architecting a game from the ground-up with little-to-no outside direction. Now, we know some of you are thinking that this sounds awesome, and it was a very awesome thing, but let us tell you, it also comes with some healthy fear. As a company, we were investing our own dollars into a project without a guaranteed future… Hell, we had been explicitly told, by many companies, that it was a loser, it had no market, and none of the people that own a Wii would want it. So, while it was so truly awesome, in many ways, it was a big weight on the team's shoulders, and it was a big show of faith from the management of our company regarding the team making The Conduit. To say we bet the farm on this project may be an understatement, but then again, sometimes you just gotta roll that hard six.

We can't pinpoint the exact time that the fans, the press, and anyone who would listen, effectively became the project's "publisher," but it seemed to happen.



Lostplanet22 on 16 March 2009

^Canada - Austria 1-0



 

Lostplanet22 on 16 March 2009

1-1



 

kirby007 on 16 March 2009

I like boobies K.O.



 "I think people should define the word crap" - Kirby007

Join the Prediction League http://www.vgchartz.com/predictions

Instead of seeking to convince others, we can be open to changing our own minds, and seek out information that contradicts our own steadfast point of view. Maybe it’ll turn out that those who disagree with you actually have a solid grasp of the facts. There’s a slight possibility that, after all, you’re the one who’s wrong.