This is a very interesting topic, although it's generally hard to discuss with Americans, as it seems like we're speaking in different languages. ^^

The way I see it, there's a spectrum with two ends. On one end is the thought that government should stay out of people's lives and just handle maybe the police or legislation, while on the other there is only the state and no private enterprise. You could call them capitalism and socialism, but I'm terribly hesitant in using those labels.

Of course that's purely one dimensional, and a doubly better one would have a second axis for social matters. On one end is no human rights or voting for anyone, and the legalize-all-drugs-even-heroin crowd on the other. This is how I understood the system by The Political Compass, anyway. It places me in the middle of the bottom-left quadrant, which I think is about right in social matters, but a bit exaggerated economically.

... I had some more points, but should really go now. Somebody please comment on what I said, so I'll something to get back to later. ^^

Is Obama a communist? Of course not.

Is he a socialist? Very much so.

In Obama's perfect world (and some on this site), people would own businesses, land, homes, have jobs, and would work as hard as they can to be successful. The government would then let them keep as much money as the government feels they deserve, and take the rest to do whatever the government thinks is best with it.

If that's not socialism, I don't know what is.

In the real world, the above "dream" never works. The best way to promote hard work, is to allow the people doing the work to reap the rewards. That's capitalism, and best for all. (even those who don't do the work).

By the way, the socialists on this site (like akuma and a few others), don't think that raising taxes has any effect on motivation. There is a woman at my work that feels the same way, so I did a little experiment with her.

She has an old PC on her desk, one that she really wishes would be upgraded. We have 350 people in our office, and I would say 50-60 people have worse computers. I asked her "if the IT department came to you and said 'we don't have the funds to buy you a new PC, but if you worked an additional 2 hours a week, for a month, we would', would you work the extra time for the new PC?" She said yes.

I now asked her "What if the IT department told you that with the additional income you earned the company, it would allow them to to give a PC to whomever they feel needs it most. Would you then work the uncompensated overtime?" She said no.

I then asked her "what if after the overtime and the new PC was purchased, if the IT department gave you the option to give the PC to whoever you felt needed it the most, and it could not be you. Would you work the overtime?" She said yes. (one of her co-workers has as bad a setup, and she would do it for her).

So, she is a capitalist after all, she just doesn't know it ;)

For one, Mafoo throws around all kinds of labels like its a bad habit.  He's like a political label maker.

For two, Its not that I don't think raising taxes affects motivation, I just think people are so damn greedy by nature that the effect is negligible.

There is one thing you can count on in this country, people always want money. Its the same thing as trying to outlaw marijuana. People will get it one way or another because there is such a high demand. The difference is society benefits from tax revenue whereas we waste a ton of resources enforcing anti-marijuana laws (which would save taxpayers money if we got rid of them).

So at the end of the day, greed wins over a 2.5% increase in your marginal tax rate.  That's assuming you even pay all of that extra 2.5% as well.

Progressive Taxation For The Win

*flees army of angry capitalists*

What does taxation have to do with capitalism? -I was under the impression that socialism was socializing the actual industry and business (or the capital). I get the feeling that in countries with highers tax rates, apparently nobody gets anything done.

It really doesn't have that much to do with capitalism, though in general capitalism leads to less taxes and socialism to more taxes.  But citizens of socialistic countries have to spend a lot less on things like healthcare and retirement.

Im all for capitalism, I belive everyman should earn his own bread and not rely on state handouts. If your not willing to work, you should get nothing. But on the other hand capitalism also means greed, PURE GREED. I find some people work really hard and are rewarded with less while others work less and rewarded with more. Bank bosses earn millions while the man in the street struggles to pay his mortage and feed his family, this is unfair but thats capitalism. I also belive every worker should be able to afford his own house and I belive there should be some sort of health system in place.

That's the thing.  People aren't nearly as greedy as you think.

Also... what is that second part your talking about?  Anti-marijuana laws cost everyone money do to the tax increase which is why we have them and this proves people are greedy?