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Forums - Sony - Xenogears Vs Final Fantasy VII

forevercloud3000 on 15 February 2009
g-value said:
forevercloud3000 said:
drboot said:
forevercloud3000 said:
FFVII
I will admit, Xenogears's story was much more complex, but at the expense of clarity. The game's dialogue and story are down right confusing. The game also suffers from horribly long and boring monologues.

FFVII is simply the most well rounded RPG ever. Characters were unique and captivating. The plot holds philosophical meaning in every action. The Villains were awesome to boot. I think Xenogear's battle system is better the nFFVII's but not by much. Materia was so versatile. You can come up with some pretty crazy combination that can spell victory or utter defeat in battle.

 

The monologues in disc two were the parts where the game shined its brightest. Just because a story is "confusing" doesn't mean it is bad. People bring that up in relation to MGS2 as well. If something is confusing uyou should replay/rewatch it and train your brain to become more apt at understanding deeper material.

 

I have put almost 80hrs into Xenogears on my psp and still have yet to figure out the plots full direction. Everything is still so vague. Yet for some odd reason about 60hrs of that has been dialogue and cutscenes. How can there be that much talking and nothing has even really been explained?

Thats the thing you don't get it so you toss the monologues aside as long and boring.But people like me who understands the story knows just how awesome, deep, and emotional it was.

 

I consider myself a pretty coherent person. I appreciate complex story archs such as FFVII's and MGS's. I feel I understand the story of Xenogears so far perfectly. The issue is that the story has not gone anywhere within the mounds of talking I have suffered. Xenosaga was much more progressive in it's hours of dialogue. That is what I meant by "horribly long and boring monologues". I never said I didn't understand the story.

 



      

      

      

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PSN:Forevercloud (looking for Soul Sacrifice Partners!!!)

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starbruin on 15 February 2009

I have very good experiences with both games and although I have played FFVII way more times I still tend to lean towards Xenogears as the game I have the fondest memories of. Regardless of which is better I've enjoyed both very much



“When I was 5 years old, my mom always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down “happy.” They told me I didn’t understand the assignment and I told them they didn’t understand life." - author unknown

Riachu on 15 February 2009
g-value said:
nen-suer said:
Both r really amazing games and so was Legend Of Dragoon too there the top 3 rpg

 

 Legend Of Dragoon was pretty complex too.

You're kidding.  Legend of Dragoon?  Complex?

 



 

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Johann on 15 February 2009
drboot said:
Johann said:
@drboot: The real genius of storytelling is telling something complex in a easy to understand way.
And btw, Jung references? How many people are going to get that?

I don't think everything can be explained in an easy to understand way. There are people with IQ's over a 180 with minds able to grasp or percieve far greater/more brilliant things than our own. Translating that into understandable terms is not always possible, if it were then everyone would be a mensa member. Read any of Kants books, he's perhaps the most credited philosopher in our history yet his writing is extremely difficult to grasp and decipher.

I'm not saying the writer of Xenogears is comparable to Kant, obviously not, what I'm saying is that not everything can be translated to a level of simplicity understandable to everyone and that does not make something necessarily bad. People have limits to their intelligence, but there is a very small group of people who are far beyond the average limitations and they should be allowed to express themselves whether it is "commercially" understandable or not.

Again, if someone doesn't get the Jung references, that's fine, but what's wrong with designing a game with a more cultured audience in mind?

Again, I'm just throwing that out there, I do not consider xenogears comparable to a mensa journal, but the notion that something confusing is the equivalent of bad should be dispelled.

I get what you're saying, but I don't agree. I believe my poor understanding of the story had more to do with bad writing/bad translation than my lack of inteligence/focus. There are people who can tell a very complex story in a simple way, and there are people that are so much inside their own heads they can't explain the simplest thing to anyone.

 



Quem disse que a boca é tua?

Qual é, Dadinho...?

Dadinho é o caralho! Meu nome agora é Zé Pequeno!

drboot on 15 February 2009
forevercloud3000 said:
g-value said:
forevercloud3000 said:
drboot said:
forevercloud3000 said:
FFVII
I will admit, Xenogears's story was much more complex, but at the expense of clarity. The game's dialogue and story are down right confusing. The game also suffers from horribly long and boring monologues.

FFVII is simply the most well rounded RPG ever. Characters were unique and captivating. The plot holds philosophical meaning in every action. The Villains were awesome to boot. I think Xenogear's battle system is better the nFFVII's but not by much. Materia was so versatile. You can come up with some pretty crazy combination that can spell victory or utter defeat in battle.

 

The monologues in disc two were the parts where the game shined its brightest. Just because a story is "confusing" doesn't mean it is bad. People bring that up in relation to MGS2 as well. If something is confusing uyou should replay/rewatch it and train your brain to become more apt at understanding deeper material.

 

I have put almost 80hrs into Xenogears on my psp and still have yet to figure out the plots full direction. Everything is still so vague. Yet for some odd reason about 60hrs of that has been dialogue and cutscenes. How can there be that much talking and nothing has even really been explained?

Thats the thing you don't get it so you toss the monologues aside as long and boring.But people like me who understands the story knows just how awesome, deep, and emotional it was.

 

I consider myself a pretty coherent person. I appreciate complex story archs such as FFVII's and MGS's. I feel I understand the story of Xenogears so far perfectly. The issue is that the story has not gone anywhere within the mounds of talking I have suffered. Xenosaga was much more progressive in it's hours of dialogue. That is what I meant by "horribly long and boring monologues". I never said I didn't understand the story.

 

 

I don't think Xenogears was meant to be as "progressive" in it's narrative or really "go anywhere" within the plot. The idea beyond Xenogears is introspection, psychology and philosophy are large backdrops behind the themes of the storyline. Instead of some sort of "external" progression of plot, Xenogears focuses more on the development, introspection of it's own characters -and through them giving you a mirror to reflect upon yourself. The monologues simply explore the minds/thoughts of these characters which really is the purpose of the storyline -to explore the psychology of man. Not necessarily to develop the plot or progress a sequence of actions.



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drboot on 15 February 2009
Johann said:
drboot said:
Johann said:
@drboot: The real genius of storytelling is telling something complex in a easy to understand way.
And btw, Jung references? How many people are going to get that?

I don't think everything can be explained in an easy to understand way. There are people with IQ's over a 180 with minds able to grasp or percieve far greater/more brilliant things than our own. Translating that into understandable terms is not always possible, if it were then everyone would be a mensa member. Read any of Kants books, he's perhaps the most credited philosopher in our history yet his writing is extremely difficult to grasp and decipher.

I'm not saying the writer of Xenogears is comparable to Kant, obviously not, what I'm saying is that not everything can be translated to a level of simplicity understandable to everyone and that does not make something necessarily bad. People have limits to their intelligence, but there is a very small group of people who are far beyond the average limitations and they should be allowed to express themselves whether it is "commercially" understandable or not.

Again, if someone doesn't get the Jung references, that's fine, but what's wrong with designing a game with a more cultured audience in mind?

Again, I'm just throwing that out there, I do not consider xenogears comparable to a mensa journal, but the notion that something confusing is the equivalent of bad should be dispelled.

I get what you're saying, but I don't agree. I believe my poor understanding of the story had more to do with bad writing/bad translation than my lack of inteligence/focus. There are people who can tell a very complex story in a simple way, and there are people that are so much inside their own heads they can't explain the simplest thing to anyone.

 

 

I agree that the translation was decent at best though miles better than FF7's. In respect to XG's I agree with you, I was just throwing out that in general, that not everything is necessarily confusing due to poor explanation.

But yeah, XG's suffers from some translation issues, though I still think the storyline and allusions are quite amazing/deep.



forevercloud3000 on 15 February 2009

Legend of Dragoon? Complex? Stop breathing in the aerosal people.

I love LoD's combat.........the likes ends there. The characters, stoic and lifeless, dialogue, bland and too direct, story, predictible from beginning to end.
The best thing going for the damn story is when Lavitz died I loved Lavitz :( , but then the moment was ruined with the fact they replaced him with fucking Albert(He ruined all of Lavitz's moves >:( . )



      

      

      

Greatness Awaits

PSN:Forevercloud (looking for Soul Sacrifice Partners!!!)

Johann on 15 February 2009
drboot said:
Johann said:
drboot said:
Johann said:
@drboot: The real genius of storytelling is telling something complex in a easy to understand way.
And btw, Jung references? How many people are going to get that?

I don't think everything can be explained in an easy to understand way. There are people with IQ's over a 180 with minds able to grasp or percieve far greater/more brilliant things than our own. Translating that into understandable terms is not always possible, if it were then everyone would be a mensa member. Read any of Kants books, he's perhaps the most credited philosopher in our history yet his writing is extremely difficult to grasp and decipher.

I'm not saying the writer of Xenogears is comparable to Kant, obviously not, what I'm saying is that not everything can be translated to a level of simplicity understandable to everyone and that does not make something necessarily bad. People have limits to their intelligence, but there is a very small group of people who are far beyond the average limitations and they should be allowed to express themselves whether it is "commercially" understandable or not.

Again, if someone doesn't get the Jung references, that's fine, but what's wrong with designing a game with a more cultured audience in mind?

Again, I'm just throwing that out there, I do not consider xenogears comparable to a mensa journal, but the notion that something confusing is the equivalent of bad should be dispelled.

I get what you're saying, but I don't agree. I believe my poor understanding of the story had more to do with bad writing/bad translation than my lack of inteligence/focus. There are people who can tell a very complex story in a simple way, and there are people that are so much inside their own heads they can't explain the simplest thing to anyone.

I agree that the translation was decent at best though miles better than FF7's. In respect to XG's I agree with you, I was just throwing out that in general, that not everything is necessarily confusing due to poor explanation.

But yeah, XG's suffers from some translation issues, though I still think the storyline and allusions are quite amazing/deep.

A remake would do good for the game. Rewrite the script, leave everything else the same.

 



Quem disse que a boca é tua?

Qual é, Dadinho...?

Dadinho é o caralho! Meu nome agora é Zé Pequeno!

Riachu on 15 February 2009
forevercloud3000 said:
Legend of Dragoon? Complex? Stop breathing in the aerosal people.

I love LoD's combat.........the likes ends there. The characters, stoic and lifeless, dialogue, bland and too direct, story, predictible from beginning to end.
The best thing going for the damn story is when Lavitz died I loved Lavitz :( , but then the moment was ruined with the fact they replaced him with fucking Albert(He ruined all of Lavitz's moves >:( . )

My thoughts exactly.  Legend of Dragoon is about as deep and subtle as Power Rangers.  In other words, not very.

 



 

http://www.youtube.com/user/InvaderZimGuy1?feature=mhum

g-value on 15 February 2009

what do you think about the music in both games?I liked Xenogears more the Final Fantasy VII's music.Xenogear's battle theme was freaking awesome