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Forums - General - Do you think Darwin is right

outlawauron on 16 February 2009
Final-Fan said:
It's going to get slapped down because ID is not science. And if it doesn't, then it's going to fail because ID can't get a curriculum together because it's not science, or it's going to get slapped down when people put together a curriculum that has a religious bent.

It has already been passed, signed by the governor, and approved by the school boards. http://www.lsureveille.com/1.1308789-1.1308789

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The Ghost of RubangB on 16 February 2009

I don't think ID should be taught in schools because I think creation theories should be taught outside of the classroom, like at home, in church, or on the chartz. I don't think evolution is a creation theory.



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jv103 on 16 February 2009
outlawauron said:
So what do you guys think of Louisiana passing a law that allows Intelligent Design to be taught, in addition to Darwinism, as a possible theory of creation.

 Three points:

1. There is no such thing as Darwinism.

2. If you meant Evolution - it isn't a theory of creation

3. It's Louisiana - public schools already suck and I doubt the children will learn "Intelligent Design" - Obviously teaching Evolution doesn't matter either - a la your example.

                    

 



Slimebeast on 16 February 2009
Final-Fan said:
Slimebeast said:
Final-Fan said:
I think that one of slimebeast's problems is that physics in the area being discussed sounds so weird to most laymen. I mean, a lot of that stuff TOTALLY flies in the face of 'common sense'.

Seriously, I can't know the precise momentum of something I know the exact location of? WTF is that? So slimebeast finds these explanations repellent because they are strange to him. I can see this in his arguments that basically boil down to "it sounds crazy so it can't be true".

I'm afraid, slimebeast, that they can.
lol, don't assume so much.

The problem isn't understanding.

The problem is that a multiverse theory is less reasonable to believe in than in a God.

People want to believe in it (and similar theories, despite not having a scientific basis - but hey, at least it's not a God), but they actually dont. I don't think anyone actually believes that there exists an insane amount of parallel universes with near carbon copies of each person on earth running around and living the same life.

I may be wrong, after all I'm speculating as to your mental processes, but you've apparently misinterpreted what I said. 

I never said you don't understand the proposals.  I said you find them very strange and reject them based on how bizarre they seem.  "And multiverse is a ridiculous explanation, it's just laughable that there would be 1000's of Slimebeasts out there living a near perfect copy of my life."

The multiverse theory/hypothesis (I'm not fully up to date on this stuff) is not strongly proven, but it does have support in that it's consistent AFAIK with the observed universe and the relevant mathematics.  So it does not take "faith" to believe it might be true. 

Just because people believe something strange, you seem to presume that it's just as scientifically unfounded as God.  That is not always the case, and it is not the case here.  Get over yourself. 

You should update yourself then.

"it's consistent AFAIK with the observed universe and the relevant mathematics" lol, of course it is, else it would have been discarded`, right? But "consistent" with observable data proves nothing. You need data that supports the multiverse theory, or else it takes blind faith to believe it might true, yes. That's the situation with multiverse, it takes blind faith to believe in and yes, it's just as scientifically unfounded as God or the theories that we're all just part of a simulation. Pretty typical though that you like many others have been tricked to believe otherwise.

Bottom line:

A lot of people, atheists, think the God concept is weird, it's just irrational. On the same basis of evidence and  arguments I think multiverse is weird and irrational, and very laughable.  



im_sneaky on 16 February 2009
jv103 said:
outlawauron said:
So what do you guys think of Louisiana passing a law that allows Intelligent Design to be taught, in addition to Darwinism, as a possible theory of creation.

 Three points:

1. There is no such thing as Darwinism.

2. If you meant Evolution - it isn't a theory of creation

3. It's Louisiana - public schools already suck and I doubt the children will learn "Intelligent Design" - Obviously teaching Evolution doesn't matter either - a la your example.

 

 

Exactly. What they'd learn would be stupid, but that's okay, because they'll turn out stupid either way. No evidence backing up Intelligent Design/lots of evidence for evolution.

 



 

 

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akuma587 on 16 February 2009
outlawauron said:
So what do you guys think of Louisiana passing a law that allows Intelligent Design to be taught, in addition to Darwinism, as a possible theory of creation.

A federal court already overturned a school district's decision to do this exact same thing.  And if anything, ID's case is weaker now than it was a few years ago.  I don't see this as turning out any different.  It will be overruled if challenged.

 



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

akuma587 on 16 February 2009
Slimebeast said:

You should update yourself then.

"it's consistent AFAIK with the observed universe and the relevant mathematics" lol, of course it is, else it would have been discarded`, right? But "consistent" with observable data proves nothing. You need data that supports the multiverse theory, or else it takes blind faith to believe it might true, yes. That's the situation with multiverse, it takes blind faith to believe in and yes, it's just as scientifically unfounded as God or the theories that we're all just part of a simulation. Pretty typical though that you like many others have been tricked to believe otherwise.

Bottom line:

A lot of people, atheists, think the God concept is weird, it's just irrational. On the same basis of evidence and  arguments I think multiverse is weird and irrational, and very laughable.  

But you are assuming that this makes you right.  All it does is make you equally wrong.

 



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

Final-Fan on 16 February 2009
outlawauron said:
Final-Fan said:
It's going to get slapped down because ID is not science. And if it doesn't, then it's going to fail because ID can't get a curriculum together because it's not science, or it's going to get slapped down when people put together a curriculum that has a religious bent.
It has already been passed, signed by the governor, and approved by the school boards. http://www.lsureveille.com/1.1308789-1.1308789

And I'm sure it is being or going to be challenged. 



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Final-Fan on 16 February 2009
Slimebeast said:
Final-Fan said:
Slimebeast said:
Final-Fan said:
I think that one of slimebeast's problems is that physics in the area being discussed sounds so weird to most laymen. I mean, a lot of that stuff TOTALLY flies in the face of 'common sense'.

Seriously, I can't know the precise momentum of something I know the exact location of? WTF is that? So slimebeast finds these explanations repellent because they are strange to him. I can see this in his arguments that basically boil down to "it sounds crazy so it can't be true".

I'm afraid, slimebeast, that they can.
lol, don't assume so much.

The problem isn't understanding.

The problem is that a multiverse theory is less reasonable to believe in than in a God.

People want to believe in it (and similar theories, despite not having a scientific basis - but hey, at least it's not a God), but they actually dont. I don't think anyone actually believes that there exists an insane amount of parallel universes with near carbon copies of each person on earth running around and living the same life.
I may be wrong, after all I'm speculating as to your mental processes, but you've apparently misinterpreted what I said. 

I never said you don't understand the proposals.  I said you find them very strange and reject them based on how bizarre they seem.  "And multiverse is a ridiculous explanation, it's just laughable that there would be 1000's of Slimebeasts out there living a near perfect copy of my life."

The multiverse theory/hypothesis (I'm not fully up to date on this stuff) is not strongly proven, but it does have support in that it's consistent AFAIK with the observed universe and the relevant mathematics.  So it does not take "faith" to believe it might be true. 

Just because people believe something strange, you seem to presume that it's just as scientifically unfounded as God.  That is not always the case, and it is not the case here.  Get over yourself.
(1)You should update yourself then.

(2)"it's consistent AFAIK with the observed universe and the relevant mathematics" lol, of course it is, else it would have been discarded`, right? But "consistent" with observable data proves nothing. You need data that supports the multiverse theory, or else it takes blind faith to believe it might true, yes. That's the situation with multiverse, it takes blind faith to believe in and yes, it's just as scientifically unfounded as God or the theories that we're all just part of a simulation. Pretty typical though that you like many others have been tricked to believe otherwise.

Bottom line:

(3)A lot of people, atheists, think the God concept is weird, it's just irrational. On the same basis of evidence and  arguments I think multiverse is weird and irrational, and very laughable.

1.  Was that some type of shot at me?  I think it's hilarious that you would say something about my lack of knowledge. 

2.  "You need data that supports the multiverse theory, or else it takes blind faith to believe it might true, yes."  Wrong!  The key word here is "might".  If someone believes that it's definitely true without more supporting evidence than the possibility that it's true, then yes faith is involved.  But it takes no faith to believe that it might be true.  (It would only if the idea is contradicted by evidence, as is the case for some beliefs.) 

3.  As akuma said, atheists who reject God based only on how strange the concept is to them are just as misguided as you -- but that only means you have company in being wrong. 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Slimebeast on 16 February 2009
Final-Fan said:
Slimebeast said:
Final-Fan said:
Slimebeast said:
Final-Fan said:
I think that one of slimebeast's problems is that physics in the area being discussed sounds so weird to most laymen. I mean, a lot of that stuff TOTALLY flies in the face of 'common sense'.

Seriously, I can't know the precise momentum of something I know the exact location of? WTF is that? So slimebeast finds these explanations repellent because they are strange to him. I can see this in his arguments that basically boil down to "it sounds crazy so it can't be true".

I'm afraid, slimebeast, that they can.
lol, don't assume so much.

The problem isn't understanding.

The problem is that a multiverse theory is less reasonable to believe in than in a God.

People want to believe in it (and similar theories, despite not having a scientific basis - but hey, at least it's not a God), but they actually dont. I don't think anyone actually believes that there exists an insane amount of parallel universes with near carbon copies of each person on earth running around and living the same life.
I may be wrong, after all I'm speculating as to your mental processes, but you've apparently misinterpreted what I said. 

I never said you don't understand the proposals.  I said you find them very strange and reject them based on how bizarre they seem.  "And multiverse is a ridiculous explanation, it's just laughable that there would be 1000's of Slimebeasts out there living a near perfect copy of my life."

The multiverse theory/hypothesis (I'm not fully up to date on this stuff) is not strongly proven, but it does have support in that it's consistent AFAIK with the observed universe and the relevant mathematics.  So it does not take "faith" to believe it might be true. 

Just because people believe something strange, you seem to presume that it's just as scientifically unfounded as God.  That is not always the case, and it is not the case here.  Get over yourself.
(1)You should update yourself then.

(2)"it's consistent AFAIK with the observed universe and the relevant mathematics" lol, of course it is, else it would have been discarded`, right? But "consistent" with observable data proves nothing. You need data that supports the multiverse theory, or else it takes blind faith to believe it might true, yes. That's the situation with multiverse, it takes blind faith to believe in and yes, it's just as scientifically unfounded as God or the theories that we're all just part of a simulation. Pretty typical though that you like many others have been tricked to believe otherwise.

Bottom line:

(3)A lot of people, atheists, think the God concept is weird, it's just irrational. On the same basis of evidence and  arguments I think multiverse is weird and irrational, and very laughable.

1.  Was that some type of shot at me?  I think it's hilarious that you would say something about my lack of knowledge. 

2.  "You need data that supports the multiverse theory, or else it takes blind faith to believe it might true, yes."  Wrong!  The key word here is "might".  If someone believes that it's definitely true without more supporting evidence than the possibility that it's true, then yes faith is involved.  But it takes no faith to believe that it might be true.  (It would only if the idea is contradicted by evidence, as is the case for some beliefs.) 

3.  As akuma said, atheists who reject God based only on how strange the concept is to them are just as misguided as you -- but that only means you have company in being wrong. 

Nice spin.

You said "Just because people believe something strange, you seem to presume that it's just as scientifically unfounded as God.  That is not always the case, and it is not the case here.  Get over yourself."

And you didn't withdraw that in your reply. You only addressed the word "might" (rightly so though).

So it seems you still have to update yourself (or stop with the spins ) even if you believe you are so knowledgable.