I would never do as you do, Wessle. I prefer to be a peacemaker and tolerate those who are different than me.

BigJon, I do claim to be Orthodox...and I am libertarian, so I am allowed to play both sides of the political spectrum.

As much a Wessle Woggle is hugely abrasive he is right. The burden of proof is on the individual who claims God exists.

erm, well you my foundation is that i believe the Bible to be entirely true, so in order to prove me wrong you have to find an error in the Bible, now get looking.

You see, the Bible is my foundation, the Bible say there is a God, and that God wrote it, I have to use faith to accpet that fact. There is nothing else, you cant use reason to come to that conclusion. BUT I find the Bible's perfection to be a sign that it is divine so therefor I believe every word in it. Sounds circular huh? Well it is, but in the center of that is faith, and faith is what holds my beliefs together.

What exactly do you base your beliefs on? Yourself right... Lets see, you a piece of flesh expect to get the correct answers of the universe on your own? O really. Sounds like you need to start a cult and at least make some money of this.

Also, the Catholics teach the idea of purgatory (only suffering a few years for sins), but purgatory has no Biblical bases, it was invented in the middle ages as a fund raiser. You see, that is what caused the Reformation really. They were teaching that people who were just good, died and went to purgatory (Heretics and Pagans went to hell) and they could get them out of there sooner by Paying money to the church. This is how the Sistine Chapel was built.

The Bible teaches excepting Christ is something you do or you dont. There is not in between you either go heaven forever or hell forever. In Revelations 20 it says that Death and Hell are cast into the lake of fire forever. Here is link that talks about it more

http://www.parentalguide.com/Documents/Doctrines/Hell_and_the_lake_of_fire.htm

There is nothing you can do on your own to get to heaven. Nothing.

ive decided to convert. i have become a mormon fundamentalist

WessleWoggle said: mrstickball said: One should also note that as much as you want to hate on Christians, we're usually the ones that are first out there feeding & sheltering the homeless, providing medical treatment for the sick, adopting the parent-less, and helping the impoverished. Yell at me/us all you want, but when I go to church, I'm going to talk to my youth group about new projects this year for prison outreach, soup kitchens, and clothing drives Do you want the root of practical Christianity? World Vision Salvation Army Red Cross YMCA Modern Adoption Horrible blights on civilization that should be abolished, no? Correct. Mixing in religion with good deeds only gives undue credit to religion, rather than credit to human generosity and empathy.

Take away the Christianity from said organizations, and they never would have existed.

World Vision is an ecumenical council with 40% of it's funding coming from churches.

Salvation Army is a Christian denomination that's soul purpose has been to bring salvation through practical outreach.

Red Cross was founded by a strong Christian

YMCA was started as an ecumenical fellowship of Christians for athletics. That's why it's called the Young Men's Christian Assosciation.

Adoption was founded shortly after the Civil War by a pastor.

Take Christ's influence on their lives, and you would of never had the organizations, and we'd be about 100 years behind in private social outreach programs. You can say how much religion needs to get out of philanthropy, but concepts of charity in religious organizations far preceeds secular organizations....I guess humanity really never has had much motivation for it then?

I dont think you should get banned, but I do remember getting banned for saying less "mean" things about Obama. besides if you got banned it would kinda kill the discussion no?

Sweet that means you get to be a God someday and start your own planet.

Christian

Worked in the atheistic Soviet Union where they did just that. Right?

Just because I am what you are called hardline now does not mean I have always been. You a few years back I took a step back from the teachings I grew up with to evaluate it on my own. I would see a personal of a different religion and think, "You know.... in his mind he thinks he is right and has the truth, and this I am lost and confused." That is when I studied the doctrines of each of these religions very closely. I think that is what you are referring to when you say you cross referenced everyone observable reality. I look mainly at Protestantism, Catholism, Islam, Judism, and Athiesm. I quickly crossed out Cath because it claims to follow the Bible too, but errors from it in many ways. Athiesm came down to general revelation, just looking at the order of nature, and complexity of the galaxy points to a maker, I think all men are born with an inner sense of a divine power, and some like you choose to ignore becuase the idea seems irrational. Now since all signs point to a divine power, that means one religion must be right.

ok so now I was down to Judism, Christian (pro), and Islam. I compared the OT prof with the account of Christ birth and it was clear to me that Jesus was the messiah, so that ruled out Judism, and I studied Islam VERY in depth. But when all things were added up it was very clear that Islam is not the true religion.

I put my faith in Jesus, and the Bible. I am 100% convinced I am right, not just because that is what I was grown up believing, but I believe God revealed himself to me, and gave me direction through that process. The Bible has never been proven wrong, and to me alone is proof enough.