I never bought this HD thing as a big selling point for consoles. I was pretty sure it would be insignificant.
I'm a Home Theaters hobbyist since more than 10 years, and if there's sth I know, it's that most people are completely clueless on technology, and don't care one bit.
I got over it a long time ago, even though it causes me some problems. Because you see, in Europe, the best sets (RPTV) will soon disappear (they don't sell enough), because people can't recognize quality, and the sales clerk mislead them in thinking RPTV are old technology. That's because they make less money on these, as they're cheaper and have better quality image, so they would make no money on the other sets.

From my own experience, I know too that most people don't make any difference between SD and HD. Myself I don't on my set, which is so good it makes SD looks even better than on SDTV.
The HD crowd is passionate. Every time I hear them talk about their experience, it's "I think I'm out there", or "it has a 3D look". I'm amazed at how people can be manipulated by their expensive sets.
I never feel any of that when looking at HD content on my HDTV. It's just less blurry, that's all. And yes, outdoors sets are more beautiful, like the BBC demo, but I'm not as amazed as they are.
This crowd is very niche anyway, and given the money you have to put and the BS you have to sort out to have a correct HD set, I'm not surprised.

So very few people will actually be interested by HD. Another clue to me, was when XB360 owners were saying there's no difference in quality between their component cable and HDMI. It was obvious then, that they didn't care one bit about HD, it was just one more buzzword to put their console of choice forward.

HD is mostly for movies anyway. Full HD I should say, as in 1080p, as in what HDMI is really useful for. No current console can make games in true 1080p (not upscaled) that would be playable, they are limited to 720p. Which makes all this HD consoles talk even more nonsense.

ookaze said: I never bought this HD thing as a big selling point for consoles. I was pretty sure it would be insignificant. I'm a Home Theaters hobbyist since more than 10 years, and if there's sth I know, it's that most people are completely clueless on technology, and don't care one bit. I got over it a long time ago, even though it causes me some problems. Because you see, in Europe, the best sets (RPTV) will soon disappear (they don't sell enough), because people can't recognize quality, and the sales clerk mislead them in thinking RPTV are old technology. That's because they make less money on these, as they're cheaper and have better quality image, so they would make no money on the other sets. From my own experience, I know too that most people don't make any difference between SD and HD. Myself I don't on my set, which is so good it makes SD looks even better than on SDTV. The HD crowd is passionate. Every time I hear them talk about their experience, it's "I think I'm out there", or "it has a 3D look". I'm amazed at how people can be manipulated by their expensive sets. I never feel any of that when looking at HD content on my HDTV. It's just less blurry, that's all. And yes, outdoors sets are more beautiful, like the BBC demo, but I'm not as amazed as they are. This crowd is very niche anyway, and given the money you have to put and the BS you have to sort out to have a correct HD set, I'm not surprised. So very few people will actually be interested by HD. Another clue to me, was when XB360 owners were saying there's no difference in quality between their component cable and HDMI. It was obvious then, that they didn't care one bit about HD, it was just one more buzzword to put their console of choice forward. HD is mostly for movies anyway. Full HD I should say, as in 1080p, as in what HDMI is really useful for. No current console can make games in true 1080p (not upscaled) that would be playable, they are limited to 720p. Which makes all this HD consoles talk even more nonsense.

Well lucky Polyphony Digital totally proved you wrong about your 2nd to last sentence. Anyways the problem 360 owners have using HDMI is that the 360 cant do native 1080p, the PS3 can if the developers (like Gran Turismo 5 will prove) can figure out how to do it. Oh and actually I watched 300 on an SDTV and 300 on Blu-ray at 1080i. There is a MAJOR difference. Both TVs were above 40" btw.

ssj12 said: ookaze said: I never bought this HD thing as a big selling point for consoles. I was pretty sure it would be insignificant. I'm a Home Theaters hobbyist since more than 10 years, and if there's sth I know, it's that most people are completely clueless on technology, and don't care one bit. I got over it a long time ago, even though it causes me some problems. Because you see, in Europe, the best sets (RPTV) will soon disappear (they don't sell enough), because people can't recognize quality, and the sales clerk mislead them in thinking RPTV are old technology. That's because they make less money on these, as they're cheaper and have better quality image, so they would make no money on the other sets. From my own experience, I know too that most people don't make any difference between SD and HD. Myself I don't on my set, which is so good it makes SD looks even better than on SDTV. The HD crowd is passionate. Every time I hear them talk about their experience, it's "I think I'm out there", or "it has a 3D look". I'm amazed at how people can be manipulated by their expensive sets. I never feel any of that when looking at HD content on my HDTV. It's just less blurry, that's all. And yes, outdoors sets are more beautiful, like the BBC demo, but I'm not as amazed as they are. This crowd is very niche anyway, and given the money you have to put and the BS you have to sort out to have a correct HD set, I'm not surprised. So very few people will actually be interested by HD. Another clue to me, was when XB360 owners were saying there's no difference in quality between their component cable and HDMI. It was obvious then, that they didn't care one bit about HD, it was just one more buzzword to put their console of choice forward. HD is mostly for movies anyway. Full HD I should say, as in 1080p, as in what HDMI is really useful for. No current console can make games in true 1080p (not upscaled) that would be playable, they are limited to 720p. Which makes all this HD consoles talk even more nonsense. Well lucky Polyphony Digital totally proved you wrong about your 2nd to last sentence. Anyways the problem 360 owners have using HDMI is that the 360 cant do native 1080p, the PS3 can if the developers (like Gran Turismo 5 will prove) can figure out how to do it. Oh and actually I watched 300 on an SDTV and 300 on Blu-ray at 1080i. There is a MAJOR difference. Both TVs were above 40" btw.

If I recall, the 360 is more than capable of doing 1080p and actually has had a few games in that resolution.

Name some 360 games that do true 1080p, not upscaled. Plus all new TV's are HDTV's, they don't even sell SD TV's anywhere.

This is pretty old news(bout a week), but it somewhat relates to the topic. http://wii.ign.com/articles/813/813251p1.html "On Wii's Everybody Votes Channel, Nintendo asked in a worldwide poll, "Is the TV you are watching now a widescreen TV?" After more than 10 days of tallying votes, the results are in and it appears that Wii users are split practically right down the middle on the subject. Approximately 48.8 percent of those tallied said yes, they are using a widescreen TV with Wii. The remaining 51.2 percent said no, they are using something different. " Now of course not all widescreen TVs are HD, but many are. Also, Wii owners may not play on the best TV in the house so it's possible there are more homes with HDTVs. Lastly, this is only a voluntary poll for owners of a non-HD system. So this might not mean much at all, but I thought I would share.

ballsonyourchin said: Name some 360 games that do true 1080p, not upscaled. Plus all new TV's are HDTV's, they don't even sell SD TV's anywhere.

Most people don't replace their primary TV very often. Some people only buy a new TV once every 10 years. There's a ton of SD sets out there that are going to be sitting there for quite a while. Also, you're sorely mistaken if you think SDTVs aren't being sold anymore. SDTVs are cheap and there's still a lot of consumer apathy toward HDTV.

Virtua Tennis 3 does. So does Pirates of the Caribbean, I believe.

What I disagree with in this debate is how everyone is treating the gamer crowd as though it's the same as the general public. Yes, only a fraction of the overall population owns an HDTV (28% as of the beginning of the year; even conservatively speaking, it's at least 1/3 now), but the overall population includes all the hippies and technophobes and your gramma in the nursing home. The people who buy gaming consoles are at the leading edge of technologies like HDTV, and the percentage of HD owners among them is going to be much higher -- thus making HD extremely important to this generation. (It's true that Wii has appealed to a broader audience, but I'm positive the HDTV ownership rate among Wii players is still much higher than the general pop.)

Even if you could argue that HD isn't important right at this moment (and I still think you'd be wrong), you can't deny that it will be absolutely essential in 4-5 years when this generation is at its peak. For Sony or Microsoft to ignore it would have been a critical mistake. (I also think it was a mistake for Nintendo to ignore it, but they've obviously got other draws to fall back on).

Now, as for whether Sony and Microsoft relied too heavily on the hardcore gamer crowd in general this generation? I think that's undeniable. The sales figures prove that for us every week. But there were other ways that could have been fixed than by cutting HD support, one of the main appeals of their consoles.

>>> HD games make look great if you have the equipment and know how to use it, but for this >>> generation at least I don't see that becoming more than a side point for consoles, rather >>> than the actual selling point. Not at all. HDTVs are simple to use, getting cheaper all the time, and are rapidly becoming a dominant product - somewhere around 20-30% of all households in the US have an HDTV, I think, and the numbers are going to skyrocket. Just plug in your HDMI cable, choose your resolution setting, and you're done. Sticking with SD makes sense only if you don't watch TV or films or any streaming media whatsoever. But if you want to enjoy the full media experience - gorgeous sports games, HD movies - HDTV is the way to go.

Borkachev said: What I disagree with in this debate is how everyone is treating the gamer crowd as though it's the same as the general public. Yes, only a fraction of the overall population owns an HDTV (28% as of the beginning of the year; even conservatively speaking, it's at least 1/3 now), but the overall population includes all the hippies and technophobes and your gramma in the nursing home. The people who buy gaming consoles are at the leading edge of technologies like HDTV, and the percentage of HD owners among them is going to be much higher -- thus making HD extremely important to this generation. (It's true that Wii has appealed to a broader audience, but I'm positive the HDTV ownership rate among Wii players is still much higher than the general pop.)

Early adopters are supposed to be the largest segment of technophile and yet we've already seen a disturbing poll of way too many people with a PS3 (a $600 machine mind you so I'd hope you'd do your research before spending that kind of money) not having a clue about either the HD or blu ray aspects of their console. I'm sure all of these people took those composite wires that came with the system and plugged them in not having a clue. They probably do own an HDTV because they obviously have money to waste and are likely still watching regular cable. Or those that read they supposedly get HD "out of the box" but still aren't tech savvy enough to realize Sony lied and those composite wires are not getting them their HD graphics.
edit: meant to say technophile not phobe.

Yes, people are morons and it is the responsibility of the companies to market products to them. Use a bunch of words that they don't understand and you won't sell much.