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Forums - Gaming Discussion - PlayStation 3/Xbox 360 Graphics Gap Will Start To Widen

LOL! The PS3 definitely has more headroom in graphics, in my opinion, but I don't think the gap in potential is so great that we're going to eventually see something dramatically better on the PS3. Unreal engine is not the end solution for the 360, graphically speaking.



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Groucho said:
Deneidez said:
Groucho said:
So... GeoW2 can improve leaps and bounds, despite being a 2nd iteration of an engine on the 360, but games like KZ2, being a 1st engine iteration and frankly looking better than GeoW2, can't get any better, and thus the 360 has more room to grow?

Come on 360 fans. You can come up with stuff better than that. Like "MS will figure out some genious way to make deferred rendering work on the 360 without blowing the GPU's eDRAM every time a render target is switched! I know, they are working on it right now! They said so!" or somesuch.

Unreal engine isn't made just for X360. Sure it has been optimized a bit, but its still not engine that has been made from scratch for X360. KZ2 engine is and stop calling me 360 fan I haven't even touched X360 ever(I guess, I must be on X360 side or on PS3 side. Theres no alternatives. -.-). Deferred rendering is needed because? Does Crysis use deferred rendering?... uhm... no... Does it look much better than any game on both of these consoles can ever look... yes... And yeah, G-buffer is also way too big for that small eDRAM(With reasonable resolutions.). So its a bit more complicated and I am not sure can it be done with X360 GPU.

@Squilliam

Ok, it does provide more memory for those pixel shader operations, which you can do with it.

Wait... what?  So you believe that the X360's GPU can provide graphics on par with Crysis?  The PS3's GPU is widely known to be slightly less cool than the X360's, due to the Xenos' awesome flexible pipeline.  The PS3's supporting architecture, however, allows the PS3 to outperform the X360, graphically, with techniques like deferred rendering, because the GPUs are really pretty close, and in the end, as an overall architecture, the PS3 takes the prize.

Deferred rendering is a pretty powerful technique.  I doubt it will be used in a large number of games.  In general, I disagree with this article, except for the fact that the most truly phenominal (graphically, and perhaps otherwise) games we will see, for the rest of the generation, are much more likely to be on the PS3 than the 360.  That says nothing about the general game quality, on both platforms, relative to each other.  That's the error this article has made, from my standpoint.

The 360 is not tumbling down the hill or some such BS.  It just doesn't have the room to grow that the PS3 does.  That's the price of its awesome accessibility.  All the power, now.  Honestly I think MS is better off (as the sales numbers demonstrate) by having their games shine initially and then get repetitive throughout the generation.  However, the PS3 is a fun architecture, and as an engineer myself, I can't say that I'm as remotely interested in squeezing power out of the 360 as I am out of the PS3.  360 is pretty easy, and its power is very accessible.  That's nice...  good for the games factory...  set the "B" engineering team on it (I bet you think I'm kidding).

Wait... what? Did you even read my post? You do realize that Gears of War 2 uses still the same unreal engine, which has been modified just a bit? Just think about what would happen if one would make engine and game for X360 from scratch. It wouldn't be better than anything you can do with unreal engine? You do know that even killzone 2 uses forward rendering too? You do know that you can also make hybrid engines(,which is actually done in Killzone 2, I think even GTA IV does use deferred rendering for something and was it crackdown too, anyway...)?

Sure I would love to play around with PS3(or more like with CELL) like always with new tech, but I wouldn't want to make anything big for it especially anything commercial.

@FKNetwork

Both systems have their own strenghts and the graphical abilities are more like par.



Hammer-of-Dawn said:
maybe with 1st party titles..................but is it worth it?

I mean KZ2 took 4 years, FF13 5, GT 5 is taking five years.

Life is too short to be waiting and waiting and waiting....to play a game with better visuals but gameplay that can be found on another console.

 

The PS3 has been out 2 years 3 months so Killzone 2 has been released in such a time. Not too shabby. But Gears was released ONE year into the 360's life. But sequel came out 2 years after original.

 



The issue here is that we are looking just the final result, and we are not taking in account the other factors, yes, the PS3 is showing better graphics than the 360, but just in a few games, and some of them got big budgets and a lot of dev time, probably only another few games will get this threadment, so yeah, the gap will be bigger but just for a few games... maybe 5 or 10...



By me:

Made with Blender + LuxRender
"Since you can´t understand ... there is no point to taking you seriously."

As a general guideline, processors which are manufactured using the same manufacturing processes, are of a similar die-size/ have similar transistor counts, and have similar energy consumption are very similar in terms of real world performance ... The reason for this is based on the physics which processor design is based on. Now, this is not a perfect metric because there will be inefficiency in design along with each processor will have their own strengths and weaknesses.

With this in mind, the PS3 and XBox 360 are as similar as two similarly priced graphics cards or CPUs that were released in the same year ... Basically, you would probably only ever see a single digit framerate difference between the two systems playing the same game and the same resolution regardless of which system the game was designed for.

 



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HappySqurriel said:

As a general guideline, processors which are manufactured using the same manufacturing processes, are of a similar die-size/ have similar transistor counts, and have similar energy consumption are very similar in terms of real world performance ... The reason for this is based on the physics which processor design is based on. Now, this is not a perfect metric because there will be inefficiency in design along with each processor will have their own strengths and weaknesses.

With this in mind, the PS3 and XBox 360 are as similar as two similarly priced graphics cards or CPUs that were released in the same year ... Basically, you would probably only ever see a single digit framerate difference between the two systems playing the same game and the same resolution regardless of which system the game was designed for.

 

So if architecture doesn't matter why even have a GPU? Two CPUs would have a higher transistor count.

 



If the 360 can do the same as the PS3, then why haven't we seen anything that comes close to Killzone 2? The 360 has been out a year longer than the PS3 too, which means developers have had that extra time to increase their skills.

The gap is already wide open.



Jereel Hunter said:
haxxiy said:
obamanian said:
haxxiy said:
Of course they'll start to widen. PS3 is the most powerful system by far, that's a raw cold fact.

 

 

Well, the 360 has better RAM design and a far better GPU, so i do not know if your "raw cold facts" are for real

Also gets the biggest and most detailed next gen looking worlds, while most PS3 games are in linear small paths, hardly next gen at all

 

 Epic fail!

X360's GPU:

- 48 dynamically scheduled pipelines with 2 ALUs each (1 vector4, 1 scalar)

- 16 texture units, 8 render output units

- 240 GFLOPs (48 pipelines x 5 shader ops x 2 flops/shader op x 500 MHz)

- 8 gigatexels/sec, 4 gigapixels/sec, 16 gigasamples/sec (4xAA x 4 GP)

- 232 million transistors.

PS3's GPU:

- 24 multi-way programmable pipelines with 5 ALUs each (2 vector4, 2 scalars, 1 texture unit)

- 8 vertex pipelines with 2 ALUs each (1 vector4, 1 scalar)

- 32 unfiltered texture samples, 24 texture units, 8 render output units

- 330 GFLOPS (24 pipelines x 11 shader ops x 2 flops/shader op x 550 MHz + 8 pipelines x 5 shader ops x 2 flops/shader op x 500 MHz)

- 300 million transistors.

X360's memory:

- 512MB GDDR3 at 700 MHz, 22.4GB/s bandwidth (1400 MHz x 16 bytes data bus)

- 10 MB EDRAM at 500 MHz, 256GB/s bandwidth (500 MHz x 512 bytes data bus)

PS3's memory:

- 256MB XDR RAM at 3200 MHz,  25.6 GB/s bandwidth (3200 MHz x 8 bytes data bus)

- 256MB GDDR3 at 700 MHz, 22.4GB/s bandwidth (1400 MHz x 16 bytes data bus)

 

These are facts any small research can show you so I have tangible proof which is called knowledge thus killing any type of opinion which you have. =D!

A lot of these statistics mean absolutely nothing compared to what a GPU can truely put out. But I'd like to highlight the bolded, the statistics that truely show what kind of raw power the EDRAM has.

 

Do some REAL research. The Xbox 360's GPU has been factually shown to be more advanced than the PS3's.

 

I would like to know what you consider a statistic meaning what a GPU can truely put out. If embedded RAM was that powerful Sony would still use it since PS2 had 4 MB of embedded memory onto the GSX boosting 39 GB/s (think this compared to 2000 standards and you'll get the picture pretty clear).

Still is a advantage to X360 which means AA samples and alpha composing by lower cost. Plus X360 has the Directx 9 'trick', meaning devs do not need to build an API from scratch.

There is nothing factual to be shown. PS3's RSX has more transistors, bigger fillrate, more vector/scalar processing and better DOT processing.

 

 



 

 

 

 

 

Snaaaaaake said:
If the 360 can do the same as the PS3, then why haven't we seen anything that comes close to Killzone 2? The 360 has been out a year longer than the PS3 too, which means developers have had that extra time to increase their skills.

The gap is already wide open.

One makes games with big big budgets and loses big big money and the other makes normal games and makes normal money.

 



Tease.

alephnull said:
HappySqurriel said:

As a general guideline, processors which are manufactured using the same manufacturing processes, are of a similar die-size/ have similar transistor counts, and have similar energy consumption are very similar in terms of real world performance ... The reason for this is based on the physics which processor design is based on. Now, this is not a perfect metric because there will be inefficiency in design along with each processor will have their own strengths and weaknesses.

With this in mind, the PS3 and XBox 360 are as similar as two similarly priced graphics cards or CPUs that were released in the same year ... Basically, you would probably only ever see a single digit framerate difference between the two systems playing the same game and the same resolution regardless of which system the game was designed for.

 

So if architecture doesn't matter why even have a GPU? Two CPUs would have a higher transistor count.

 

That would be the part where he said that "each processor will have their own strengths and weaknesses". I think his point is that the Cell is not drastically above 360's CPU overall (of course it is superior for embarassingly parallel applications, which games are not for the most part except in the graphical area).

 



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