Forza 2 or Forza 1 backward compatible?  Which version?  Better in what way?  Please add some meat to your comment.  The graphics in Forza 2 are most certainly stronger by a significant margin over GT4 -- especially the butter-smooth 60 fps.  The physics and AI in Forza 2 are the best I've ever experienced in a racing game.  The reviews pretty much all say the same -- i.e. the physics engine has set the bar to a new height for all racers that follow.  So far I agree with those but I'm waiting to see what GT5 brings to the table.  The cars in Forza 2 all behave differently based on front/real/all wheel drive, amount of horsepower, weight, tire temperature, etc.  I realize you can't "total" a car but the damage modeling is pretty neat -- especially if you lock bumpers going down the track and lose a bumper cover or something like that.

I thought I was an arcade racer fan, but after playing forza 2, things like PGR and Burnout just don't do it for me.  I've found I really like the simulation aspects more than anything and that is certainly where the game excels.

I've played a whole lotta racers on my PS2 and the GT series is pretty good, but fanboyism aside, from a racing simulation standpoint, Forza 2 is a better product by a significant margin. 

I meant Forza 2. While the 60 fps makes the game seem smoother but I'd say the textures and poly models are really nothing special.

If you upscale GT4 on the PS3 and compare it, Forza2 just does not look next gen.

The AI in Forza is poor for a racing game, they are too crash happy and ignore your presence on the track far too much. The amount I've been rammed off course is just frustrating.

I have never liked damage modelling in racing games, it seems pointless unless it affects the car in a real way. The old Demolition Derby games were a very good example of how damage should be handled if you must implement it.

As for HP, Transmission and Tyre wear/temperature. The samehas been in racers since before GT1, its nothing new and frankly standard.

The only game where this has shocked me is TDU, where 4WD doesn't exist and all cars are RWD or FWD. 

I also loathe the punishment system they have in Forza, the CPU cars do not get punished for thier actions, but you do.

Perhaps I've misjudged the game, but for the $50 I put down on it, I was highly disapointed.

Alright, can someone explain to idiotic old me what the GT5 prologue is? Is it just a demo?

Its more of a GT5 "lite"

Less cars, less tracks. Different gameplay, normally licence/challenge based.

Its a game in its own right and normally what you achieve in it you can pass onto the "full game"

IMO, The AI is actually very, very good.  The problem I think is that people don't realize that you can't force your car into a particular situation and always expect the CPU to avoid hitting you.  They tend to follow real-life racing rules which means that if a car has a line you can't drive into that line and expect it to yield.  You would be penalized in real life for forcing yourself into that situation and I like the fact that I can't do that in the game, either.  If you pay close attention in traffic -- when you have the right of way or right of way is questionable, due to your position or line, the AI cars work pretty hard to avoid hitting you and are constantly making corrections to avoid bumping.

Yes, I realize all the physics modelling has been around since GT1 but Forza 2 really shines here.  They are sampling all the telemetry-type data an insane number of times per second and, IMO, produce a level of handling reality that is second to none.  Each car handles very, very differently and is much more noticable from car to car than I've seen in any previous GT game.

Certainly you have your opinion, are entitled to it, and I respect that, but from a pure physics, ai, and car handling simulation standpoint, I just don't see GT4 as even being in the same league.  My opinion, of course, and YMMV.

All that said, GT5 is looking very, very impressive.  If they bring 1080P 60FPS with better graphics and the physics/AI engines are even just equal to Forza 2, they will have a killer on their hands.   I do disagree with you on the damage modeling, though.  I realize it isn't real-life because you can hit a wall hard and still drive away, but I do thoroughly enjoy seeing the car damaged from the bumps and scrapes on the track as it adds some additional realism to overall gameplay.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this topic.

 So is it a retail version? or will it be on the PSN store?

 Absolutely.  I just wanted to know why you thought it was better.

PSN store. Or home.

Killzone is up there, but this is probably the best looking game ever.  700 cars is a nice number.