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Forums - Sales - We have some PC market data! Lets discuss...

Khuutra on 09 January 2009
alephnull said:
Certainly the maturity level of games has degraded precipitously, and console gamming is not exactly helping there. I can't think of a single console game this generation that has a premise I'm not embarrassed by. The alpha centauri used to have quotes from classics, the new civ has everyone talking in some obscure dialect of retard Esperanto.

What, really?



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salaminizer on 09 January 2009

and I thought I'd come here to have some DD numbers and all I get is another flawed discussion, bah.

 



the words above were backed by NUCLEAR WEAPONS!

Squilliam on 09 January 2009
alephnull said:
I think it's hard to argue that console gamming hasn't at least somewhat negatively affected the quality of PC games this generation. How many PC games have you played in the last 3-4 years that have had an interface obviously tailored to console gammers? You never used to see this.

Certainly the maturity level of games has degraded precipitously, and console gamming is not exactly helping there. I can't think of a single console game this generation that has a premise I'm not embarrassed by. The alpha centauri used to have quotes from classics, the new civ has everyone talking in some obscure dialect of retard Esperanto.

However, all of these changes are more likely attributed to demographic shifts. Up until the late 90s a significant number of PC gammers were made up of older hobbyists. The decline of Computer Gaming World, and the rise of the FPS probably correlate with their decline fairly accurately.

When the FPS's started to dominate PC gaming it was all over. Games like rules of engagement, carriers at war, or SU-27 flanker would likely lose allot in a console port. FPS's tend to be pretty simple games at heart, and stand to lose very little in a port. And if that's all anyone plays what's the downside to moving to consoles?

You make some excellent points, though I do believe that the consolization of the interface was as much prevalent in the PS2 generation, and I remember far more complaints then than there are currently.  Now when there are ports as seen by GTA IV and Saints Row II that even a basic level of quality control isn't assured anymore. They do not expect much in the way of sales im guessing so therefore they do not put the time/effort into the port that they should have. That is probably the biggest significant difference.

Have you played Fallout 3? Or Fable 2? These are games which deserve a lot of respect for their maturity, especially Fallout 3. There is actually quite an interesting philosophical and moral backbone to the story and in many respects I believe that it exceeds the originals so much so that I eagerly anticipate the next one. Gears of War is the first shooter type game which has caught my attention for a long time and Mass Effect whilst flawed in many ways also delivered quite a compelling story. Looking forward to the future. Heavy Rain, Mass Effect 2 and Alan Wake both look like they have potential with both polish and story to match the pedigree of their developers.  

The console gaming market is aging, you should expect to see an increase in the availability of mature content (Not porn/Violence) and as the generation progresses we should see some excellent games delivered in the next 2-3 years as the generation matures and riskier projects can be greenlighted.

 



Tease.

vlad321 on 09 January 2009
Squilliam said:
alephnull said:
I think it's hard to argue that console gamming hasn't at least somewhat negatively affected the quality of PC games this generation. How many PC games have you played in the last 3-4 years that have had an interface obviously tailored to console gammers? You never used to see this.

Certainly the maturity level of games has degraded precipitously, and console gamming is not exactly helping there. I can't think of a single console game this generation that has a premise I'm not embarrassed by. The alpha centauri used to have quotes from classics, the new civ has everyone talking in some obscure dialect of retard Esperanto.

However, all of these changes are more likely attributed to demographic shifts. Up until the late 90s a significant number of PC gammers were made up of older hobbyists. The decline of Computer Gaming World, and the rise of the FPS probably correlate with their decline fairly accurately.

When the FPS's started to dominate PC gaming it was all over. Games like rules of engagement, carriers at war, or SU-27 flanker would likely lose allot in a console port. FPS's tend to be pretty simple games at heart, and stand to lose very little in a port. And if that's all anyone plays what's the downside to moving to consoles?

You make some excellent points, though I do believe that the consolization of the interface was as much prevalent in the PS2 generation, and I remember far more complaints then than there are currently.  Now when there are ports as seen by GTA IV and Saints Row II that even a basic level of quality control isn't assured anymore. They do not expect much in the way of sales im guessing so therefore they do not put the time/effort into the port that they should have. That is probably the biggest significant difference.

Have you played Fallout 3? Or Fable 2? These are games which deserve a lot of respect for their maturity, especially Fallout 3. There is actually quite an interesting philosophical and moral backbone to the story and in many respects I believe that it exceeds the originals so much so that I eagerly anticipate the next one. Gears of War is the first shooter type game which has caught my attention for a long time and Mass Effect whilst flawed in many ways also delivered quite a compelling story. Looking forward to the future. Heavy Rain, Mass Effect 2 and Alan Wake both look like they have potential with both polish and story to match the pedigree of their developers.  

The console gaming market is aging, you should expect to see an increase in the availability of mature content (Not porn/Violence) and as the generation progresses we should see some excellent games delivered in the next 2-3 years as the generation matures and riskier projects can be greenlighted.

 

 

Please... Fallout 3 fell short when I was short on caps and I couldn't whore myself out, or when I reached Little Town. Fallout 2 is still the better game, and how long has that game been out?

Gears of war did NOTHING new, that cover system? Yeah...we call it crouching in FPSes, and the only reason they made GoW 3rd person is so that you wouldn't call them out on it. All mechanics in GoW were cahnged because of that, I don't think the Locusts with their infinite health were smart enough to realize that if 4 of them rushed the player's position at the same time, they'd destroy Marcus because of their infinite health, which is there ONLY so it can promote the cover. I couldn't even finish the first one, I'm currently at the courtyard where I see Boomers for the first time in Ch. 5, there's nothing driving me on to finish it. You also said it yourself, Mass Effect was flawed, Baldur's Gate 2 was more or less flawless, same company, I wonder what the difference is between now and then....

The market needs far more than just the maturing of 2-3 years. The other problem that exists now is that you have the parents and all those annoying people who will scream like hell. Here we'll use FO3 for example. What would have happened if Bethesda had included child killing and selling yourself out to the game? Interestingly enough, that barrier to entry of the PC is also a barrier of such information getting into the hands of people who would ty to spin those stories.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

Squilliam on 09 January 2009
vlad321 said:
Squilliam said:
alephnull said:
I think it's hard to argue that console gamming hasn't at least somewhat negatively affected the quality of PC games this generation. How many PC games have you played in the last 3-4 years that have had an interface obviously tailored to console gammers? You never used to see this.

Certainly the maturity level of games has degraded precipitously, and console gamming is not exactly helping there. I can't think of a single console game this generation that has a premise I'm not embarrassed by. The alpha centauri used to have quotes from classics, the new civ has everyone talking in some obscure dialect of retard Esperanto.

However, all of these changes are more likely attributed to demographic shifts. Up until the late 90s a significant number of PC gammers were made up of older hobbyists. The decline of Computer Gaming World, and the rise of the FPS probably correlate with their decline fairly accurately.

When the FPS's started to dominate PC gaming it was all over. Games like rules of engagement, carriers at war, or SU-27 flanker would likely lose allot in a console port. FPS's tend to be pretty simple games at heart, and stand to lose very little in a port. And if that's all anyone plays what's the downside to moving to consoles?

You make some excellent points, though I do believe that the consolization of the interface was as much prevalent in the PS2 generation, and I remember far more complaints then than there are currently.  Now when there are ports as seen by GTA IV and Saints Row II that even a basic level of quality control isn't assured anymore. They do not expect much in the way of sales im guessing so therefore they do not put the time/effort into the port that they should have. That is probably the biggest significant difference.

Have you played Fallout 3? Or Fable 2? These are games which deserve a lot of respect for their maturity, especially Fallout 3. There is actually quite an interesting philosophical and moral backbone to the story and in many respects I believe that it exceeds the originals so much so that I eagerly anticipate the next one. Gears of War is the first shooter type game which has caught my attention for a long time and Mass Effect whilst flawed in many ways also delivered quite a compelling story. Looking forward to the future. Heavy Rain, Mass Effect 2 and Alan Wake both look like they have potential with both polish and story to match the pedigree of their developers.  

The console gaming market is aging, you should expect to see an increase in the availability of mature content (Not porn/Violence) and as the generation progresses we should see some excellent games delivered in the next 2-3 years as the generation matures and riskier projects can be greenlighted.

 

 

Please... Fallout 3 fell short when I was short on caps and I couldn't whore myself out, or when I reached Little Town. Fallout 2 is still the better game, and how long has that game been out?

Gears of war did NOTHING new, that cover system? Yeah...we call it crouching in FPSes, and the only reason they made GoW 3rd person is so that you wouldn't call them out on it. All mechanics in GoW were cahnged because of that, I don't think the Locusts with their infinite health were smart enough to realize that if 4 of them rushed the player's position at the same time, they'd destroy Marcus because of their infinite health, which is there ONLY so it can promote the cover. I couldn't even finish the first one, I'm currently at the courtyard where I see Boomers for the first time in Ch. 5, there's nothing driving me on to finish it. You also said it yourself, Mass Effect was flawed, Baldur's Gate 2 was more or less flawless, same company, I wonder what the difference is between now and then....

The market needs far more than just the maturing of 2-3 years. The other problem that exists now is that you have the parents and all those annoying people who will scream like hell. Here we'll use FO3 for example. What would have happened if Bethesda had included child killing and selling yourself out to the game? Interestingly enough, that barrier to entry of the PC is also a barrier of such information getting into the hands of people who would ty to spin those stories.

Dude... you hate everything how exactly can I take your hate seriously when you dish it out so liberally?

 

 



Tease.

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vlad321 on 09 January 2009
Squilliam said:
vlad321 said:
Squilliam said:
alephnull said:
I think it's hard to argue that console gamming hasn't at least somewhat negatively affected the quality of PC games this generation. How many PC games have you played in the last 3-4 years that have had an interface obviously tailored to console gammers? You never used to see this.

Certainly the maturity level of games has degraded precipitously, and console gamming is not exactly helping there. I can't think of a single console game this generation that has a premise I'm not embarrassed by. The alpha centauri used to have quotes from classics, the new civ has everyone talking in some obscure dialect of retard Esperanto.

However, all of these changes are more likely attributed to demographic shifts. Up until the late 90s a significant number of PC gammers were made up of older hobbyists. The decline of Computer Gaming World, and the rise of the FPS probably correlate with their decline fairly accurately.

When the FPS's started to dominate PC gaming it was all over. Games like rules of engagement, carriers at war, or SU-27 flanker would likely lose allot in a console port. FPS's tend to be pretty simple games at heart, and stand to lose very little in a port. And if that's all anyone plays what's the downside to moving to consoles?

You make some excellent points, though I do believe that the consolization of the interface was as much prevalent in the PS2 generation, and I remember far more complaints then than there are currently.  Now when there are ports as seen by GTA IV and Saints Row II that even a basic level of quality control isn't assured anymore. They do not expect much in the way of sales im guessing so therefore they do not put the time/effort into the port that they should have. That is probably the biggest significant difference.

Have you played Fallout 3? Or Fable 2? These are games which deserve a lot of respect for their maturity, especially Fallout 3. There is actually quite an interesting philosophical and moral backbone to the story and in many respects I believe that it exceeds the originals so much so that I eagerly anticipate the next one. Gears of War is the first shooter type game which has caught my attention for a long time and Mass Effect whilst flawed in many ways also delivered quite a compelling story. Looking forward to the future. Heavy Rain, Mass Effect 2 and Alan Wake both look like they have potential with both polish and story to match the pedigree of their developers.  

The console gaming market is aging, you should expect to see an increase in the availability of mature content (Not porn/Violence) and as the generation progresses we should see some excellent games delivered in the next 2-3 years as the generation matures and riskier projects can be greenlighted.

 

 

Please... Fallout 3 fell short when I was short on caps and I couldn't whore myself out, or when I reached Little Town. Fallout 2 is still the better game, and how long has that game been out?

Gears of war did NOTHING new, that cover system? Yeah...we call it crouching in FPSes, and the only reason they made GoW 3rd person is so that you wouldn't call them out on it. All mechanics in GoW were cahnged because of that, I don't think the Locusts with their infinite health were smart enough to realize that if 4 of them rushed the player's position at the same time, they'd destroy Marcus because of their infinite health, which is there ONLY so it can promote the cover. I couldn't even finish the first one, I'm currently at the courtyard where I see Boomers for the first time in Ch. 5, there's nothing driving me on to finish it. You also said it yourself, Mass Effect was flawed, Baldur's Gate 2 was more or less flawless, same company, I wonder what the difference is between now and then....

The market needs far more than just the maturing of 2-3 years. The other problem that exists now is that you have the parents and all those annoying people who will scream like hell. Here we'll use FO3 for example. What would have happened if Bethesda had included child killing and selling yourself out to the game? Interestingly enough, that barrier to entry of the PC is also a barrier of such information getting into the hands of people who would ty to spin those stories.

Dude... you hate everything how exactly can I take your hate seriously when you dish it out so liberally?

 

 

 

Well don't get me wrong, I love Mass Effect and FO3 a lot (can't say the same for GoW....), however they are not as good as games before them. The only eason why I love them so much right now is because they are relatively the best. If you put them in the grand scale of gaming, they would NOT have been so acclaimed. You can name me almost any recent big game (I haven't played through all the smallish ones) in the PC-centric genres and I could give you very good reasons why they are actually a step down from what we have already had.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

JaggedSac on 09 January 2009
vlad321 said:

 

Please... Fallout 3 fell short when I was short on caps and I couldn't whore myself out, or when I reached Little Town. Fallout 2 is still the better game, and how long has that game been out?

Gears of war did NOTHING new, that cover system? Yeah...we call it crouching in FPSes, and the only reason they made GoW 3rd person is so that you wouldn't call them out on it. All mechanics in GoW were cahnged because of that, I don't think the Locusts with their infinite health were smart enough to realize that if 4 of them rushed the player's position at the same time, they'd destroy Marcus because of their infinite health, which is there ONLY so it can promote the cover. I couldn't even finish the first one, I'm currently at the courtyard where I see Boomers for the first time in Ch. 5, there's nothing driving me on to finish it. You also said it yourself, Mass Effect was flawed, Baldur's Gate 2 was more or less flawless, same company, I wonder what the difference is between now and then....

The market needs far more than just the maturing of 2-3 years. The other problem that exists now is that you have the parents and all those annoying people who will scream like hell. Here we'll use FO3 for example. What would have happened if Bethesda had included child killing and selling yourself out to the game? Interestingly enough, that barrier to entry of the PC is also a barrier of such information getting into the hands of people who would ty to spin those stories.

LOL LOL LOL LOL.........LOL.

LOL LOL LOL LOL.  An infinitely more complex graphics engine.  I love BD2, but come on dude.

 



Khuutra on 09 January 2009

Look if you compare Gears of War's cover system to crouching in First Person Shooters I don't know what to tell you.

But this isn't strictly about game quality, it's about sales. Right?



Squilliam on 09 January 2009
Khuutra said:
Look if you compare Gears of War's cover system to crouching in First Person Shooters I don't know what to tell you.

But this isn't strictly about game quality, it's about sales. Right?

Yup, exactly. I shall remain on topic.

But this topic is dead, there isn't exactly any new information or participants really...

 



Tease.

Khuutra on 09 January 2009
Squilliam said:
Khuutra said:
Look if you compare Gears of War's cover system to crouching in First Person Shooters I don't know what to tell you.

But this isn't strictly about game quality, it's about sales. Right?

Yup, exactly. I shall remain on topic.

But this topic is dead, there isn't exactly any new information or participants really...

Hrm, yes, right you are.

Shall we argue about the relative virtues between TPSes and FPSes while the proper PC gamers pull their hair out, then?

For extra irony I can play Fallout 2 between replies.