Carnival Games, however, is very fun.

Just because Wii owners don't buy crap doesn't mean that they buy everything that's quality, either.

And why are you only addressing that one section of Grampy's post? Come on! Take the bull by the horns.

As much as Carnival Games is the favoured poster child for "Crap Games" selling well on the Wii, Carnival Games has something in common with Halo ... These games became very popular because people played them at someone else's house with their friends and had a really good time. It may be an odd concept to some gamers, but there are people in the world who actually value elements like "Fun in Crowd" more heavily than "Armor is slightly bumpier than previous version of game"

Though I agree WiiSports (not so much WiiPlay) is a big mover for the console, "common sense" is not a good argument, as you'll find common sense often falls apart under scrutiny. Even worse is "universally accepted", given that a) it is not universally accepted and b) people believing it doesn't make it true (if it did, the PS2 would have been the most powerful console last gen).

Where'd you get that idea?

Like Halo and Smash Bros?

I had a long thought out response to Legend's post, but my laptop decided to shutdown for no damn reason, and neither FireFox or Word remembered it. =P

So, short version.

Critical reception wise:

Bad Company > Army of Two
Burnout Paradise > Need for Speed Pro Street

Sales wise:

Army of Two > Bad Company
Need for Speed Pro Street > Burnout Paradise

The Orange Box, amongst the best rated games ever, outsold by tons of crap with far worse reviews on the 360.

Lesson here; People buy what they think they will enjoy. They typically don't care about what a collection of nerds has to say about it.

No More Heroes, Zack and Wiki, and Boom Blox are all obsecure niche games with little, no, or simply bad marketing, and there's nothing comparable on the HD consoles that have sold better at retail without some huge brand name slapped on it.

Carnival Games is a good game. It gives people carnival games, on a gaming console, and does that well. Moving the ring around an electric coil is my personal favorite of the bunch.

Did I say only, I did not because the real world is not like that and never will be. I'm been a scientist for thirty six years and I can tell you yes and no are never the answer. Even something as well understood as cigarettes cause cancer (and trust me they do) but that does not mean that every smoker dies of lung cancer or that no one ever gets lung cancer from other causes. The differences  are in percentages sometimes subtle. Therefore we don't take a quick glance at one raw number and spout off nonsense. Some of these games don't have anything like their final number but the better games are tracking faster and higher.

Will people still buy bad games yes. Not everyone checks reviews. I've impulse bought a few turkey on sale and ended up throwing them away. Are there reasons why some games start lower than they should, Yes. World at War is undoubtably been hurt by the fact that CoD3 was a POS. I waited quite a while before deciding to give them a 2nd chance.

Also you are comparing games without regard for time frame. PS360 users act more like pack animals, games sometimes sell 50% on day 1. Wii games are not so front loaded. You will not know how Madden 09 sold until after 10 comes out but I'll bet money it'll be higher than 8 which was higher than 07.

And because a lot of us are actually mature we are not slaves to review scores Minigames will never score well but they are good to have around and some are quite fun. I happen to love Mel Brooks movies. I also know that they get bad reviews because they are "silly". Yes, that's why I like them.

I am quite sure I have responded to every possible legitimate question you have raised. If you and your  friend don't think the Wii will never quote be a PS2. No and Uncle Billy will never be my Aunt Tilly. Why do you care, why should I. Goodbye, thanks for spoiling a good discussion I hope someone does as much for you. I'm afraid it won't be me, I just have beter thing to do with my time than to piss on other people's parades.

My grandmother was a very self rightous woman and was constantly telling me what I needed to do to go to heaven and to not go to hell. Finally I asked her, "are you going to heaven grandmother?" "Yes," she said. "And are the other people in heaven like you?" "Yes," she said proudly. "Good," I said, I'm glad I'm going to hell because I couldn't stand Heaven."

Odd but after encounters like this, I somehow end up glad I don't want or have a PS3. Sorta the same feeling.

You guys claimed to be more mature than HD consoles owners, yet anytime someone says something about the wii you don't like, all i hear is crying.

First of all, the PS3 is far from being frontloaded, LBP, Uncharted, Resistance, all these games were called flop after the first week by, guess which fanboys.

The wii is the wii, its something different wich most Developers havent accepted yet, but these guys will come. The games will show up. I believe wii2 will be the PS2, the developers will be ready for it and it will be more powerful.

Not going to address the stuff I cut out.

This is a pretty reasonable assumption, but I don't know if it's necessarily going to play out that way. They're going to have to be ready to jump ship early in the next gen if we expect that.

Great thread, Grampy!  I agree with many of your points.  Crappy ports are definitely a no-no, while diversity is a yes!  Someone mentioned that if someone other than Nintendo made a Kart game like MK it wouldn't do well.  It shouldn't.  I don't need two of the same game.  I want something different!  It doesn't matter who makes it.  If Nintendo themselves released a game every year with minor upgrades I wouldn't purchase it from them either.  (But they wouldn't do that.  )  The fourth point rang very true to me.  I like having games that anyone can pick up and learn to play, such as MK:Wii, but can also be really challenging if you play against skilled opponents.  I've never really thought about that.  Oh, the things I take for granted!  I wonder if that's hard for a developer to implement.    The motion control point is the only one I disagree with.  I don't think developers should skip the Wii if their game doesn't work well with motion controls.  They have 2 other controller options.  Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the Wiimote and am greatly anticipating WM+!  I just don't believe that the developer  should force it it's not plausible.  However, aside from fighters such as Smash Bros., there's not that many genres for which it would be hard to incorporate motion controls.  The graphics point was spot on.  I'm not asking for HD, but the game damn sure better look better than a PS2 game.    

PS - Don't let the trolls that entered the thread get you down.  They fear the Wii because it has the same effect on them as the sun.