that is one stupid article. The second i saw it was written by someone with the name PSEXTREME who used words such as "haters, just jealous, spread of stupidity" i knew i was in for a piece of crap article

honestly why is it so hard for each side to simply realize maybe the other guy just LIKES a system better? Its like if somone likes ps3 more they MUST be a jealous 360 hater or vice versa. That doesn't make any sense. When i see someone who likes there PS3 more than a 360 or the other way around i just assume they like their console better. Not OMGZ!!! HE IS TEH JEALOUS FANBOYZ!

1.  So, what would be a specific, real example of Warhawk fans saying that Sixaxis motion controls are comparable in overall quality to Wii motion controls? 

2.  So, now you're agreeing with me. 

1. When was admitting Six-Axis was superior to the Wiimote ever required to show that people still aren't making excuses for it or defending it? Now you're just trying to add a new card on the deck to garnish your argument. People still give props to Six-Axis, people still praise Blu-Ray as a necessity to gaming, people still rave about the Cell processor, people still praise manditory installations, people still praise the PS-Eye, people still praise HOME, people still praise every new PS3 exclusive as the Game of the Year. If you think Six-Axis is all there is to my argument then you're gravely mistaken.

2. If in fact I am then the only question now is why you ever made it a point of contention in the first place. But that's besides the point. The point was never to say people still thought rumble was stupid but that they were that easy to manipulate into thinking so for a period of time and then so quickly rejoice at the inclusion of Dualshock 3, despite just bieng Dualshock 2.

If you really want to see that Sony fanbase in its true state of denial, and hardware discussion doesn't suffice you need look no further than the article on the front page discussing Sony's new Spin to see the lengths the Sony fandom will go to in order to defend their precious Sony. Even then Vgchartz is hardly the most popular place for the Sony community at large, using this site as anything but the tip of the iceberg is laughable as you're trying to do in establishing a seeming lack of support for my claims.

1.  Since when does "comparable to" necessarily mean "equal to", let alone "superior to"?  I'm just asking you to back up your claim, it's not that complicated.  I just want to make sure you're not confusing Warhawk fans saying that Sixaxis motion controls are implemented well in a game with the claim that Sixaxis motion controls are comparable (which could mean as good or better, but could also mean not as good but still in the ballpark) as Wii motion controls. 

The fact that you are now misinterpreting me and ignoring my request makes me wonder if you can back up this particular claim in the least.  And it's not a new wrinkle in my argument at all, the "AFAIK" was a subtle request for a rebuttal if you could muster one. 

You do have a decent point that perhaps I have been focusing on the Sixaxis too exclusively, but I'm not trying to engage you on the general subject at this time, only specific alleged examples.  Such a general debate would be massive and while I might be willing, I am not yet going there.  You are overreaching by far with some of those examples, like HOME -- is it not worth defending the potential of a service that is still quite new?  Can it not vastly mature and improve as many such social networks/games have?  And what is wrong with the PS Eye? 

2.  Allow me to quote myself: "By contrasting the PS3 fans with the 360 fans who have accepted the severity of the RRoD, you imply that the PS3 fans have NOT accepted the shortcomings of the Sixaxis, which is blatantly false AFAIK."  In resect to rumble, you have now said:  "now since they've announced it will be back, no one has any reason to pretend its bad anymore."  I.e. they accepted it once Sony admitted the problem, which is exactly what happened with many 360 fans.  This contrasts with your original implication that they to this day deny that rumble is or would be an asset to the PS3 controller. 

So, these people who thought rumble was unnecessary because Sony said so, and only changed their minds when Sony admitted that rumble was needed, are in fact not so dissimilar as you claimed from people who stayed in desperate denial of the RRoD problem during the time that MS PR was doing the same.  Which was my point. 

1. I'm refusing your request because its based on puting words in my mouth. PS3 fans being in denial over Six-Axis does not require them to suggest it is comprable to or superior to the Wii Motion Controls so your request of this is moot. You're just spinning your wheels in hopes that you can snag me on a self-imposed rule that you feel should be included in the argument after the fact.

2. Its not my fault you misinterpreted my statement or have been reduced to trying to exploit such an isolated piece of semantics as the backbone of your argument.

3. In the end, if there is any validity to your argument, then why are you reduced to such inconsequential points of contention? Allow me to repeat the sum of my cliam which you've done everything to cherry pick your way out of.

The Sony Fandom still give props to Six-Axis, people still praise Blu-Ray as a necessity to gaming, people still rave about the Cell processor, people still praise manditory installations, people still praise the PS-Eye, people still praise HOME, people still praise every new PS3 exclusive as the Game of the Year.

Unless you can refute all of these then you're simply just cherry picking to create the illusion of having an argument. Even if you were right about Six-Axis (which all you have to the benefit of your argument is the lack of Sony having released anything that would beg the issue since 2007), where does that leave you on the rest of these?

1.  "PS3 fans couldn't go on enough about how Six-Axis was going to be superior to the Wii remote."  If you don't think they still believe this, then in what way exactly DO you believe they're in denial about the Sixaxis motion controls "anytime someone talks about that warhawk flying game"?

2.  Semantics?  I'm trying (as I have been trying from the start) to get you to back up or back down a specific claim you made.  I am using your written words to try to identify and pin you down on what that claim is.  Where am I being asinine with semantics? 

3.  I'm sorry that I gave the impression that I was willing to turn this thread into a giant war over the precise extent to which PS3 fans are delusional.  I am not and never said anything to contradict this.  Here's the short version of what I think of your list: 
i.  Sixaxis motion controls are not worthless -- some praise is deserved.  Your OPINION is that it gets too much, but you have yet to provide any egregious examples. 
ii.  Blu-ray in fact gives a massive storage advantage over DVD.  Many people take this too far.  I am not going to debate the level of self-deception in those people's minds. 
iii.  The Cell processor.  Well, I guess instead of debating this we could just PM MikeB and find out for sure how far it goes. 
iv.  The PS Eye.  You have yet to actually explain what's wrong with this.  I haven't even heard ANYone talk about it in quite some time, let alone delusionally tout it as some massive advantage over the other systems. 
v.  HOME:  people hyped this up as much as all three fanbases hype up any big game.  Now it's falling short, but as I said it could improve dramatically. 
vi.  What kind of joke is this?  Alan Wake?  The Conduit?  Maybe they'll be the bees' knees, but you don't really know.  All three fanbases do this; you just hold PS3 fans in such sneering contempt that they look especially stupid when their hopes are dashed or they hold out hope in denial while hopes-being-dashed reviews roll in. 

If you go back to my original post on the matter, it's very clear that while I disagree with much of your post I was restricting my subject matter to one specific area and fact-based objections. 

Now that I look back I can see that you've completely lost sight of where this all began, because I really don't think you're so stupid or self-deluded as to mistake my crystal clear intentions. 

I see this is upsetting you, either way, perhaps its best to let it go. Unless you wish me to respond to this. Your call.

Upsetting? Maybe in some sense of the word, but I assure you that I'm not getting too emotional; I'm not about to melt down or blow my stack. [edit: And I'm honestly a bit confused as to how you thought I was getting so distraught or discombobulated that it was worth suggesting we abandon the discussion entirely ... but I guess it's not that important.]

If you wish to withdraw from the discussion, you are free to do so, but please don't do it on my account. But if I may say so, it might be better to deal with the original point of discussion and have it be done with before moving on to any of the other stuff mentioned recently -- if we even want to get to that other stuff at all. (That is, let's settle (1) and (2) completely before even deciding whether to move on to (3) at all.)

you guys are keeping this thread alive, aren't you?

Very well then, I see you wish to continue. You had your chance.

1. They are in denial of it being a completely and utterly broken feature. I don't see how it is beyond your comprehension to see that it does not require one to hold something in superiority to still be in denial of its true shortcomings. They believe it to be a modest feature of limited use still but will never admit to it as being something that ruined games or is fundamentally broken. There is even a piece of gyroscopic Wii Motion plus-like hardware in each controller that has never been used because of suspisions within the industry that so many were defective that it was just easier not to utilize that feature in game rather than replace the controllers.

The funny thing is, you acknowledge your understanding of this later in your response yet choose to play dumb in the beginning here to lead on the question.

2. Back it up, anyone who has been on this forum for the past two years has all the evidence they need, yet I'm sure you see only what you want to see. Eitherway, if backing up my claims is all you really wanted then you'd simply just be able to demand that as simply as its written each and every time I response. No, now you're backpeddling, you're trying to dig yourself out of this murky hole you mired yourself in.

3. So you're saying: "you've never said anything to contradict your turning this whole thread into a war about PS3 fanboy semantics"? Because that's what you wrote. But never mind that I think I might have an idea of what you were trying to say. Maybe.

i. How about the fact its not been used in any game other than those that were still in development before the PS3 launched thus showing how terrible Six-Axis was.

ii. Blu-Ray is also what killed the PS3 as a viable console by making it too expensive. Any defense of Blu-Ray as an asset of gaming is a defense of its utilization in the PS3. Of course any format with more space will offer an advantage, but the point is not whether Blu-Ray is the superior format, but the fact that people are so set on defending its implimentation in the PS3 that they turn a blind eye to the fact that it is the PS3's Judas. Gaming on the PS3 would not be any different for 99.99999% of its games if it used DVD9 instead of Blu-Ray, except that they wouldn't need manditory installations to compensate for the early Blu-Ray drive's inability to read data at a usable speed.

iii. Unlimited Power. Or perhaps an overly complicated and needlessly unique approach to processing that has only added to the PS3's difficulty to program for and expense in developing for. Nobody is willing to admit the Cell Processor was just an out and out bad idea that could have easily been done away with. No. People still need to find some way to redeem it or sing its praise. Bring in all the tech heads you want to show its superiority, hell Reganomics sounded good in theory too.

iv. It was a flop and has limited to virtually no practical application. Not more than a few months ago there was a topic or article somewhere where Sony enthusiast were talking about a new PS-Eye game. It's a dead feature, yet people will still pretend its worth even the slightest bit of value when a new PSN game comes out for it.

v. No, it was hyped up in only the way the Sony fandom could hype something. Only Smash Bros. Brawl on the Wii was ever this hyped and nothing I can recall on the 360 ever recieved this anticipation, not even Halo 3. This wasn't just a hyped game, HOME was to be the great equalizer, it was to be a console saver, it was to revolutionize online gaming, it was to be the definitive answer to XBLA. To say it fell short is like saying this economic recession is but a small bump in the road.

vi. Even for all the undeserved hype the Conduit gets, the sheer universiality of insane hype that goes to every inhouse or exclusive PS3 game set its far apart from the 360 or Wii. Don't try and pin this on the industry as a whole. I have a hard time believing Geist 2 or Advent Rising 2 would've gotten half the reception from the Wii or 360 community as Killzone 2 is getting from the Sony. A game like LBP that would have been ignored had it been a Wii title was elevated to the status of a console saver by the Sony hopefulls, let's just thank god that De'Blob stayed on the Wii *rolls eyes*.

You claim you only brought up points that could be backed up with facts, but how are those points are anymore or less suseptable to facts than those you chose not to make a point of discussion?