1) You called me immature and then you imply that I do not condemn terrorism perpetrated against Israel? Ironic, to say the least. I find it odd that you have turned this into some weird personal attack.

2) That is in no way comparable to the Germans asking us to stop helping France. That comparison is laughable. Iraq is a sovereign nation. The US only has the authorization to operate there by UN mandate (which it no longer has)or a SOFA agreement (which it currently has). If Iraq does not desire the US or other nations to continue the war, the other nations have no recourse. That is why it is irrelevant if the US asked those nations to stay. Iraq said all non-US forces must cease military operations by May 31 and withdraw from Iraq by July 31. You fail to grasp that it is no longer our war. Also, terrorist attacks have decreased. They may not have ceased completely, but they have decreased.

3) I am uncertain how I can respond to your meandering points. No, the US does not require UN authorization to defend itself. With that being said, invading Iraq was not a war of self-defense! If it is not a war of self-defense, and Iraq was a war of prevention and neither self-defense nor preemption, it requires UN authorization. I have found that the consensus is that Resolution 1441 did not authorize use of force. The US does not have the authority to interpret and enforce the UN's resolutions.

I do not have to prove myself to some wannabe pedant attempting to debate me on the internet. I will say that my relationship with my uncle Phillip Revard, who is the Research Director for Governor Granholm, has provided me many opportunities to discuss such matters with the Governor's legal counsel and other officials who are quite knowledgeable. I also have discussed this matter with many professors at the MSU College of Law. I find it sad that you posted a picture of me in a vain effort to discredit me. You have embarrassed yourself greatly in this thread, Comrade.

You know, under Saddam, there was that whole 'Blow yourself up, and your family will get $25,000' deal he was offering...

Iraqbodycount.org says 90,000 civilians have been killed since 2003. Well under your 2 million estimate. Since US forces went in to Iraq, there's been a decrease in civilian deaths by 87% per annum.

The cost may have been high, and may not of been worth it, but the fact is that America's invasion in Iraq saved countless civilian lives - far more than it's taken. It's like arguing that not fighting Hitler during World War 2 would of saved civilian lives.

omg, this entire post history is so freakin' incorrect its just disgusting.

@Nickelbackro Jews NEVER had a majority in the region. ok, sorry about 1700 years ago they did. Before WWII Jewish Population was less than 15%. Smaller than the Christian population. In 1948 after years of illegal immigration from Europe it was still at best around 40% or so. Around WWI, yes the very small immigration was legal and peacful, mostly. But, that changed drastically during WWII and thereafter.

@mrstickball wtf are you talking about? It's not so much a Palestine vs Israeli conflict as it is a Arab vs Israeli conflict. Plus, there was a small uprising decades ago against the Jordanian King because of his actions with Israel, that ended in a massive shelling and massacre of a lot of refugees.

@Comrade Tovya, Though I actually agree with your other post regarding the religious doctrine on killing enemies in a war of defense. But, that's not why I qouted you here. While its true that Palestinians have poor living conditions in other Arab lands, they aren't bombed and dehumanized daily. They have water and electricity all the time. The only Palestinian Arabs that are doing remotely ok in that region are those that stayed in Israel and however, they are not fully equal citizens and have unique id cards. But, I do give Israel credit for at least allowing them into the political process even if they can't buy homes in Jerusalem, can't visit certain areas, can't hold military positions (which have many great benefits), are under constant scrutiny even though a very tiny number of any type of attack has come from an Arab-Israeli.

I don't understand why this type of action isn't considered a war crime. How can it possibly be ok for someone to blow up an entire family to get rid of one person?

Don't tell me the crap that Hamas does it with rockets etc. It still doesn't make it right. They should raid the places and use snipers or something else. Not 2000lb bombs that level the entire area killing tons of innocent people.

superchunk,

the only difference between the israeli jews and the israeli arabs is that the arabs arent required to serve in the army. they are full and equal citizens.

@Jackson50

You talked to the governor of Michigan's legal counsel? Okay, first that's comical because the governors legal counsel charges more money in an hour to the state of Michigan then you'll make this month (so you would never get to use them pro-bono like they are a charity, you're just not that important kid), and secondly I fail to see what makes a state's governor's "legal counsel" experts on International Law? But if it makes you feel like a big boy saying those things, then be my guest.

Once again in another thread you are pretending to be an enlightened intellectual when in all reality your nothing but a college kid playing armchair politics. You have no idea what politics are all about, and you've never had anything to do with them either. You're just a kid.

Anyway, I'll leave it at that, because you've outdone yourself. I'll leave you alone with the governor's legal counsel now LOL

So your saying you'd prefer Israel to invade the Gaza strip to kill the terrorists?

Israel has a higher population then Paletstine currently no?  Like about 8 million vs 3 million?

From what I posted, you surmised that I was implying that the governor's legal counsel was providing me pro bono services? Please, I conversed with the governor's legal team the many times I saw them when I visited with my uncle. Considering MSU is located in East Lansing and close to the state capitol, I am provided the opportunity to visit with hime quite often. In addition to the people I mentioned, I also have had many conversations with prominent scholars such as Moataz Fattah and et al. Makes me feel like a big boy? You ask me a question, I provide the answer, and then attempt to mock me? That is the epitome of puerile.

Comrade, your rude attitude and attempts to discredit me have failed. The only person you have discredited and embarrassed iin this thread is yourself. You cannot handle discussing the topic and subsequently resort to personal attacks. It is a shame, really, and it simply shows how little you knew about the issue we were originally discussing.

^^^ I've heard you say the same thing over and over, and I can't find the substance in what you say, and you can't find the substance in what I say. I think your rude, and you think I am as well. I think you embarrass yourself, and you think that I do the same. (I'm seeing a trend here, and I suppose you do as well...)

So that is that. It's a disagreement to the end, and I can live with that. I rarely expect two people on the opposite ends of political and ideological spectrums to agree... that's life.

More importantly, I haven't slept in 36 hours, and I'm exhausted, and therefore am finding myself to be more agreeable at the moment than usual... and I think we both can agree that this argument became boring a few pages back (you see, we found a common point, and that's a good start!)

I wish you nothing but the best... on to the next debate thread.