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Forums - General - Hamas legalizes Crucifixion

mrstickball on 30 December 2008
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Stick, I never said we throw him out, but like you said, they found the tomb of Herod right where it was supposed to be, so why haven't we found a grave that says here like Jesus christ and the tomb guarded by angels or something? I'm only saying that the writing alone does not verify his existence, without something to back it up, show me something, that verifies his existence like with the Herod tomb. Also the only desire I have, is a desire for truth and evidence.

Also we have evidence of the Roman empire, based on the fact that empires have Beauracracy, evidence of wars, and great works that are built.

Actually, Jesus' tomb was found...It was a well-known site that was chronicled in the Bible, which still exists to this day:

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blackstar on 30 December 2008
MrBubbles said:
blackstar said:
over 350 people are dead in 4 days and people ask "how terrorists are born?"

@stickball: when did we start considering the collateral damage as "an ok" thing?

 

of course...that situation only tells us how they die.


sorry , I don't get what u mean

what situation?



Jackson50 on 30 December 2008

Mr. Stickball is correct. The Church of the Holy Sepulchre has been known for quite some time. It may not be a difinitive location, but there is no reason to believe it is inauthentic.

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Church_of_the_Holy_Sepulchre_%28Jerusalem%29



rocketpig on 30 December 2008
blackstar said:
over 350 people are dead in 4 days and people ask "how terrorists are born?"

@stickball: when did we start considering the collateral damage as "an ok" thing?

I highly suggest you read up more on World War II before making such a statement.

Collateral damage wasn't even much of a consideration before the Vietnam War. Only then, because of the influx of a quickly-moving media, did we start seeing the atrocities of war first-hand. Then the public suddenly started caring, but only about the things they see.

Don't kid yourself too much. You'll only be left depressed when you discover the real truth.

Bombs kill indiscriminately. Only now that we have smart bombs and whatnot do we try to avoid civilian casualties. It's an amazing phenomenon, really... The USA will spend upwards of $5m for every missile launched to avoid a single civilian death. Compare that to Dresden.




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Avinash_Tyagi on 30 December 2008

Actually, Jesus' tomb was found...It was a well-known site that was chronicled in the Bible, which still exists to this day


Incorrect

Once again that site is only where they say Christ was buried, however if that was true then where are the bones or the actual tomb? It is only believed by christians to be Golgotha, but once again there is no definitive evidence that Jesus was actually buried there in fact the authenticity of the location is uncertain as well.

As one of the Archaelogists admits that they don't know:

"We may not be absolutely certain that the site of the Holy Sepulchre Church is the site of Jesus' burial, but we have no other site that can lay a claim nearly as weighty, and we really have no reason to reject the authenticity of the site."

Now if this is supposed to be Jesus's burial site, where are dem bones?  Why are't they certain that he was buried there?

Like I said there is no evidence that Jesus was actually a real person just second hand writings , heck they can't even find the body or the actual grave



 

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rocketpig on 30 December 2008
Avinash_Tyagi said:

Actually, Jesus' tomb was found...It was a well-known site that was chronicled in the Bible, which still exists to this day


Incorrect

Once again that site is only where they say Christ was buried, however if that was true then where are the bones or the actual tomb? It is only believed by christians to be Golgotha, but once again there is no definitive evidence that Jesus was actually buried there in fact the authenticity of the location is uncertain as well.

As one of the Archaelogists admits that they don't know:

"We may not be absolutely certain that the site of the Holy Sepulchre Church is the site of Jesus' burial, but we have no other site that can lay a claim nearly as weighty, and we really have no reason to reject the authenticity of the site."

Now if this is supposed to be Jesus's burial site, where are dem bones?  Why are't they certain that he was buried there?

Like I said there is no evidence that Jesus was actually a real person just second hand writings , heck they can't even find the body or the actual grave

To interject a medium opinion, you both have points but Avinash is asking the important questions... How on Earth do you know?

I've read up on the Holy Sepulchre and the science behind it is sketchy at best. Yes, it's the most likely burial place of Christ that's been found. On the other hand, expecting to actually find bones there is ridiculous. Almost no bones are found in any burial place nowadays. This isn't Indiana Jones. Almost any burial site has been looted multiple times over the years and the expectation of bones is like wishing for God's hand to guide you the way to Eden. It just doesn't happen.

But, to the best of my knowledge, there are records of Christ existing. Whether he's the Son of God or not is up for each person to decide. Isn't that the point of religion in the first place? I'm a dedicated Agnostic but I won't refute that the man existed. His holyness is definitely up for debate, though.

It's times like this where I really appreciate my Religious Studies, Anthropology, and Sociology classes. God knows I hated them all (except for physical antrhopology, that shit rocked).

 




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MrBubbles on 30 December 2008
rocketpig said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:

Actually, Jesus' tomb was found...It was a well-known site that was chronicled in the Bible, which still exists to this day


Incorrect

Once again that site is only where they say Christ was buried, however if that was true then where are the bones or the actual tomb? It is only believed by christians to be Golgotha, but once again there is no definitive evidence that Jesus was actually buried there in fact the authenticity of the location is uncertain as well.

As one of the Archaelogists admits that they don't know:

"We may not be absolutely certain that the site of the Holy Sepulchre Church is the site of Jesus' burial, but we have no other site that can lay a claim nearly as weighty, and we really have no reason to reject the authenticity of the site."

Now if this is supposed to be Jesus's burial site, where are dem bones?  Why are't they certain that he was buried there?

Like I said there is no evidence that Jesus was actually a real person just second hand writings , heck they can't even find the body or the actual grave

To interject a medium opinion, you both have points but Avinash is asking the important questions... How on Earth do you know?

I've read up on the Holy Sepulchre and the science behind it is sketchy at best. Yes, it's the most likely burial place of Christ that's been found. On the other hand, expecting to actually find bones there is ridiculous. Almost no bones are found in any burial place nowadays. This isn't Indiana Jones. Almost any burial site has been looted multiple times over the years and the expectation of bones is like wishing for God's hand to guide you the way to Eden. It just doesn't happen.

But, to the best of my knowledge, there are records of Christ existing. Whether he's the Son of God or not is up for each person to decide. Isn't that the point of religion in the first place? I'm a dedicated Agnostic but I won't refute that the man existed. His holyness is definitely up for debate, though.

It's times like this where I really appreciate my Religious Studies, Anthropology, and Sociology classes. God knows I hated them all (except for physical antrhopology, that shit rocked).

 

jesus didnt leave any bones, so it would be a little hard to find them .....



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rocketpig on 30 December 2008

Bubbles, I'm approaching this from a scientific idea, not a faith-based one. Whether they found bones is ultimately unimportant to the actual discovery.




Or check out my new webcomic: http://selfcentent.com/

Avinash_Tyagi on 30 December 2008
rocketpig said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:

Actually, Jesus' tomb was found...It was a well-known site that was chronicled in the Bible, which still exists to this day


Incorrect

Once again that site is only where they say Christ was buried, however if that was true then where are the bones or the actual tomb? It is only believed by christians to be Golgotha, but once again there is no definitive evidence that Jesus was actually buried there in fact the authenticity of the location is uncertain as well.

As one of the Archaelogists admits that they don't know:

"We may not be absolutely certain that the site of the Holy Sepulchre Church is the site of Jesus' burial, but we have no other site that can lay a claim nearly as weighty, and we really have no reason to reject the authenticity of the site."

Now if this is supposed to be Jesus's burial site, where are dem bones?  Why are't they certain that he was buried there?

Like I said there is no evidence that Jesus was actually a real person just second hand writings , heck they can't even find the body or the actual grave

To interject a medium opinion, you both have points but Avinash is asking the important questions... How on Earth do you know?

I've read up on the Holy Sepulchre and the science behind it is sketchy at best. Yes, it's the most likely burial place of Christ that's been found. On the other hand, expecting to actually find bones there is ridiculous. Almost no bones are found in any burial place nowadays. This isn't Indiana Jones. Almost any burial site has been looted multiple times over the years and the expectation of bones is like wishing for God's hand to guide you the way to Eden. It just doesn't happen.

But, to the best of my knowledge, there are records of Christ existing. Whether he's the Son of God or not is up for each person to decide. Isn't that the point of religion in the first place? I'm a dedicated Agnostic but I won't refute that the man existed. His holyness is definitely up for debate, though.

It's times like this where I really appreciate my Religious Studies, Anthropology, and Sociology classes. God knows I hated them all (except for physical antrhopology, that shit rocked).

 

 

 The records are writings written well after the fact, long after he supposedly died.

And whether the sites have been looted or not, doesn't change the fact that no evidence is there to substantiate the man beyond those writings, which were not written by people who knew him or even met him and may or may not be accurate.

Now perhaps there is no evidence of him existing or maybe it just can't be found, but then you can't really say with any certainty that he actually existed, there may not have been a real person named, Jesus or there may have, but without the evidence all you have is theories.



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

Final-Fan on 30 December 2008
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Final-Fan said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Final-Fan said:
I think Avinash's Wii 2015 prediction is more believable than Jesus not existing.
Well you're welcome to that belief, however that doesn't refutemy point that there is no certainty of his existence, only stories, legends and second hand accounts

But actually there is relatively high certainty of his existence, it's just that you're setting standards unreasonably high.  Second hand accounts are not to be sneered at unless there is a reason to think they are inaccurate.  You have not adequately justified the level of skepticism you are applying to the Roman accounts' accuracy. 

The fact that there is not OVERWHELMING evidence is consistent with a figure of that era who was not all that famous during his own lifetime. 

(And a novelist writing flaws into a "heroic main character" isn't the same as a priest writing flaws into his savior.)
(1)Depends on who the heoric character is.

(2)Also i'm not setting unreasonably high expectations, and there is no certainty of him existing, sorry but second hand accounts by people who never met the guy is not certainty.  Second hand accounts won't fly in a court room, and they don't fly on internet discussion boards, would you really say that a guy saying that he heard from another person that all the PS3's in a certain state wereall sold out yesterday is a certainty, or would you want some actual proof?  Somenting official?  I'm not sneering at the second hand accounts, however I am pointing out that they are not enough, I need to have something official, show me a certificate of birth or a certificiate of death, or even a work order for the construction of the crucifix for a one Jesus Christ and then we can talk certainty.

(1) Clearly you missed my point, which was that your comparison of someone making up bad things about one's fictional character and someone making up bad things about the savior of one's religion is ludicrous.  Harry Potter may be the savior of the wizarding world, but I seriously doubt J.K. Rowling worships him (despite the billions of dollars he's made her).

(2) Actually this illustrates perfectly what I mean by "unreasonably high expectations".  Birth certificate?  Death certificate?  What makes you think it's reasonable to expect that something like this would definitely have been produced?  Work order for the construction of a particular crucifix?  You must be joking.  Let alone a work order that specifies the person to be executed on that particular cross.



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