Did I say that the romans made up the story?  where did I say that?

I said that The writings of the crucifixtion, even those of the Romans, were done decades after his suppsed death, plenty of time for any stories to become legend, to become embellished and changed, you argue that because some romans wrote about a guy who was crucified decades earlier, that he must have been real, not at all, what i'm saying is that unless there is some proof that any of these roman writers actually were there, then all they are writing is second hand accounts as well.

You yourself admit that it was a punishement that was carried out a lot of times in that period, so there were plenty of stories of people who had been crucified floating around at the time, some of those stories may have even been fake, just rumors, yet still could have been tunred into legend.

My point is, unless you have a first hand account of the events, some sort of documentation of the event as it was happening, you have no evidence, beyond story.

Based with that kind of historical critera basically nothing can be proved.  Second hand accounts aren't any less reliable then first hand accounts historically because first hand accounts could of always been faked too.

It was VERY common for first hand accounts to be greatly embelshed or in large points made up.

Hence why there is a modern historical process used to determine what's true and what isn't.

There are plenty of things that even a pure historical review of the bible that proves Jesus existed... like the fact that despite the attempts to portray him as a perfect son of god there are facts about him not favorable for the messiah.

For example the fact that he's from Nazareth... or that Jesus is baptized by John the Baptist.

It's as strong as even a lot of written by a guy who saw it arcahelogical evidence.

Heck just the fact he was crucified is something christians wouldn't just make up.  I mean that was like the most embarresing way to be executed.  They would of picked a much more dignified death for the death of their savior... no doubt.

That doesn't actually prove anything though, all that proves is that the stories of Jesus have not favorable things to say about him, even novels today have parts where the heroic main character is seen as less than perfect.  Where he is seen as a jerk or a coward or a cheater.

None of the historical process proves Jesus's existence as fact, only that there is writings of a man named Jeuss, who may or may not have been real.

I think Avinash's Wii 2015 prediction is more believable than Jesus not existing.

 Well you're welcome to that belief, however that doesn't refutemy point that there is no certainty of his existence, only stories, legends and second hand accounts

But actually there is relatively high certainty of his existence, it's just that you're setting standards unreasonably high.  Second hand accounts are not to be sneered at unless there is a reason to think they are inaccurate.  You have not adequately justified the level of skepticism you are applying to the Roman accounts' accuracy. 

The fact that there is not OVERWHELMING evidence is consistent with a figure of that era who was not all that famous during his own lifetime. 

(And a novelist writing flaws into a "heroic main character" isn't the same as a priest writing flaws into his savior.)

israel go to the hell,poor palestiniens

 Depends on who the heoric character is.

Also i'm not setting unreasonably high expectations, and there is no certainty of him existing, sorry but second hand accounts by people who never met the guy is not certainty.  Second hand accounts won't fly in a court room, and they don't fly on internet discussion boards, would you really say that a guy saying that he heard from another person that all the PS3's in a certain state wereall sold out yesterday is a certainty, or would you want some actual proof?  Somenting official?  I'm not sneering at the second hand accounts, however I am pointing out that they are not enough, I need to have something official, show me a certificate of birth or a certificiate of death, or even a work order for the construction of the crucifix for a one Jesus Christ and then we can talk certainty.

We need to stop classifying it as people vs. people.  Large portions of the Palestinian and Israeli populations want the stupidity to end.  When you have soldiers (govt. agents) and revolutionaries targeting innocent people it's not the fault of the people, its a fucked up situation where everybody but the war mongers on both sides get to maintain power and control wealth.  Talk like that might turn international support in favor of Palestine, but it would only lead to a direct reversal of the current situation.

I am against the death penalty, but there's a difference between a fast death and a slow death.

I'd take lethal injection anyday.

Kind of interesting no one brought up Josephus mentioning Jesus in his book 'antiquity of the Jews'

It was written in 93AD.

At any rate, it seems that no matter what, Hamas and the Palestinians don't want freedom. You don't gain freedom by launching daily rocket strikes into a neighboring country.