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Forums - General - Hamas legalizes Crucifixion

Avinash_Tyagi on 30 December 2008
Kasz216 said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Kasz216 said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Kasz216 said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Kasz216 said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Slimebeast said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:

 

 

 Not flamebait:

 

In the academic fields of mythology, mythography, or folkloristics, a myth is a sacred story involving symbols that are usually capable of multiple meanings 

 

Since there is no certainty that he ever existed, he becomes myth

There is plenty of cetanty jesus existed... what are you talking about?

 

 

 Actually not so much, you see most of the writings of Jesus were done decades after his supposed death, most of the idea of jesus as a person has been based on writings done at the time, we have very little actual evidence beyond those writings.

 

Very little yet still enough...  He's mentioned by Josephus... and not the part that's a forgery either.

and as much as you want to say about the bible... large parts of it are being proven more and more historically accurate.

Sure there is a bit of made up in it, in how things happened... but it's a good historical source all things told.

Furthermore there is plenty of historical evidence of his early followers and of his disciples.

 

 

Josepheus wrote well after Jesus's supposed death, as did the other writers, decades afterwards, in an era without modern medicine, where lifespans were much shorter, in fact josepheus was born after Jesus's supposed death, so he would have never met the guy.

 

Like I said, the evidence is very shaky at best

Your reaching.... no one believes said hypothisis it's been basically refuted.

It's rather nonsensical to aruge otherwise.  I mean your basically argueing... that all the frameworks, all the disciples, everything was in place... but jesus didn't exist and was made up for some reason.

Pretty much all historians agree Jesus existed no matter their religion unless they're out for a quick buck and some attention.

 

 

No this isn't reaching, this is actual reality, all the stories were written well after his death, and like with Josepheus, there is no way they could have met, so you have second hand accounts of a supposed person, written by people who never met the person, the epistles of paul for example were written by a guy who never met Jesus, he said it came to him in a vision, you know what we call that today, either a drug induced hallucination or something like Schizophrenia

Yeah... there are plenty of historical people that only exist due to second hand historical records.

That there would be first hand historical records of jesus would actually be ridiculious considering the circumstances.

I mean, he didn't start up any great wars or something, he was just some guy... who led a bunch of people, and then was excuted.  That kind of thing happened all the time in ancient Israel under the Romans.

 

 Which is why I say that there is no certainty that he ever existed.  Heck I could write a book about a guy who lived thirty years ago that I never met, doesn't mean the guy was real, you need real evidence, not just writings done decades later by people who never met the guy.



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

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Kasz216 on 30 December 2008
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Kasz216 said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Kasz216 said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Kasz216 said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Kasz216 said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Slimebeast said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
I thought you Abrahamics were down with crucifixtion, don't you chrisitians stick pictures of your mythological messiah being crucified everywhere?

 

 Flame bait lol.

 

 Not flamebait:

 

In the academic fields of mythology, mythography, or folkloristics, a myth is a sacred story involving symbols that are usually capable of multiple meanings 

 

Since there is no certainty that he ever existed, he becomes myth

There is plenty of cetanty jesus existed... what are you talking about?

 

 

 Actually not so much, you see most of the writings of Jesus were done decades after his supposed death, most of the idea of jesus as a person has been based on writings done at the time, we have very little actual evidence beyond those writings.

 

Very little yet still enough...  He's mentioned by Josephus... and not the part that's a forgery either.

and as much as you want to say about the bible... large parts of it are being proven more and more historically accurate.

Sure there is a bit of made up in it, in how things happened... but it's a good historical source all things told.

Furthermore there is plenty of historical evidence of his early followers and of his disciples.

 

 

Josepheus wrote well after Jesus's supposed death, as did the other writers, decades afterwards, in an era without modern medicine, where lifespans were much shorter, in fact josepheus was born after Jesus's supposed death, so he would have never met the guy.

 

Like I said, the evidence is very shaky at best

Your reaching.... no one believes said hypothisis it's been basically refuted.

It's rather nonsensical to aruge otherwise.  I mean your basically argueing... that all the frameworks, all the disciples, everything was in place... but jesus didn't exist and was made up for some reason.

Pretty much all historians agree Jesus existed no matter their religion unless they're out for a quick buck and some attention.

 

 

No this isn't reaching, this is actual reality, all the stories were written well after his death, and like with Josepheus, there is no way they could have met, so you have second hand accounts of a supposed person, written by people who never met the person, the epistles of paul for example were written by a guy who never met Jesus, he said it came to him in a vision, you know what we call that today, either a drug induced hallucination or something like Schizophrenia

Yeah... there are plenty of historical people that only exist due to second hand historical records.

That there would be first hand historical records of jesus would actually be ridiculious considering the circumstances.

I mean, he didn't start up any great wars or something, he was just some guy... who led a bunch of people, and then was excuted.  That kind of thing happened all the time in ancient Israel under the Romans.

 

 Which is why I say that there is no certainty that he ever existed.  Heck I could write a book about a guy who lived thirty years ago that I never met, doesn't mean the guy was real, you need real evidence, not just writings done decades later by people who never met the guy.

Except Jesus passes the test of historical criticism.  There is a direct historical certainty he existed.

Heck i could print up a bunch of coins that have a made up persons face on them... bury them and have it say "King of Galbania, Kufus the Second, Circa 2008" and hundreds of years from now people would think there was a King of Galbania.

There is a certantity he existed hence why every respectable scholar does believe it.



Avinash_Tyagi on 30 December 2008
Kasz216 said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Kasz216 said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Kasz216 said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Kasz216 said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Kasz216 said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Slimebeast said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
I thought you Abrahamics were down with crucifixtion, don't you chrisitians stick pictures of your mythological messiah being crucified everywhere?

 

 Flame bait lol.

 

 Not flamebait:

 

In the academic fields of mythology, mythography, or folkloristics, a myth is a sacred story involving symbols that are usually capable of multiple meanings 

 

Since there is no certainty that he ever existed, he becomes myth

There is plenty of cetanty jesus existed... what are you talking about?

 

 

 Actually not so much, you see most of the writings of Jesus were done decades after his supposed death, most of the idea of jesus as a person has been based on writings done at the time, we have very little actual evidence beyond those writings.

 

Very little yet still enough...  He's mentioned by Josephus... and not the part that's a forgery either.

and as much as you want to say about the bible... large parts of it are being proven more and more historically accurate.

Sure there is a bit of made up in it, in how things happened... but it's a good historical source all things told.

Furthermore there is plenty of historical evidence of his early followers and of his disciples.

 

 

Josepheus wrote well after Jesus's supposed death, as did the other writers, decades afterwards, in an era without modern medicine, where lifespans were much shorter, in fact josepheus was born after Jesus's supposed death, so he would have never met the guy.

 

Like I said, the evidence is very shaky at best

Your reaching.... no one believes said hypothisis it's been basically refuted.

It's rather nonsensical to aruge otherwise.  I mean your basically argueing... that all the frameworks, all the disciples, everything was in place... but jesus didn't exist and was made up for some reason.

Pretty much all historians agree Jesus existed no matter their religion unless they're out for a quick buck and some attention.

 

 

No this isn't reaching, this is actual reality, all the stories were written well after his death, and like with Josepheus, there is no way they could have met, so you have second hand accounts of a supposed person, written by people who never met the person, the epistles of paul for example were written by a guy who never met Jesus, he said it came to him in a vision, you know what we call that today, either a drug induced hallucination or something like Schizophrenia

Yeah... there are plenty of historical people that only exist due to second hand historical records.

That there would be first hand historical records of jesus would actually be ridiculious considering the circumstances.

I mean, he didn't start up any great wars or something, he was just some guy... who led a bunch of people, and then was excuted.  That kind of thing happened all the time in ancient Israel under the Romans.

 

 Which is why I say that there is no certainty that he ever existed.  Heck I could write a book about a guy who lived thirty years ago that I never met, doesn't mean the guy was real, you need real evidence, not just writings done decades later by people who never met the guy.

Except Jesus passes the test of historical criticism.  There is a direct historical certainty he existed.

Heck i could print up a bunch of coins that have a made up persons face on them... bury them and have it say "King of Galbania, Kufus the Second, Circa 2008" and hundreds of years from now people would think there was a King of Galbania.

 

 

 No actually there isn't, in fact there is the Jesus myth hypothesis, so it has not passed the test of historical critiscism or certinty as there are those who hypothesize that the stories are not real

 

 



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

Kasz216 on 30 December 2008
Avinash_Tyagi said:

 

 No actually there isn't, in fact there is the Jesus myth hypothesis, so it has not passed the test of historical critiscism or certinty as there are those who hypothesize that the stories are not real

 

 

Those who hypothisize this are frauds.

Why else would the Romans... before they went Chrstian mind you... refrence that they crucified him after the fact if they didn't?  That would be beyond stupid.

 



Avinash_Tyagi on 30 December 2008
Kasz216 said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
 

 

 No actually there isn't, in fact there is the Jesus myth hypothesis, so it has not passed the test of historical critiscism or certinty as there are those who hypothesize that the stories are not real

 

 

Those who hypothisize this are frauds.

Why else would the Romans... before they went Chrstian mind you.  Refrence that they crucified him after the fact if they didn't?

Actually there isn't many secular records of Jesus's crucifixtion, and the ones that do exist, like Tacitus, was written decades later

 

 



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

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Kasz216 on 30 December 2008
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Kasz216 said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:

 

 No actually there isn't, in fact there is the Jesus myth hypothesis, so it has not passed the test of historical critiscism or certinty as there are those who hypothesize that the stories are not real

 

 

Those who hypothisize this are frauds.

Why else would the Romans... before they went Chrstian mind you.  Refrence that they crucified him after the fact if they didn't?

Actually there isn't many secular records of Jesus's crucifixtion, and the ones that do exist, like Tacitus, was written decades later

 

 

Yeah.  That's my point.  Decades later... while they still were pagans... the Romans refrence crucifying jesus.

Why would they do this?  When they have more to gain from denying his existence?

No doubt there is a record of jesus' execution, but it's no different then the record of the execution of a theif or another prophet.

It wasn't until decades later that Jesus became anything to write about in the non religious world.

Once Chrsitanity was proven it was here to stay and not just another crazy Jewish sect gone in a few months....

THEN we get histroical refrences of Romans talking about how they crucified jesus.

If they didn't, it would  make much more sense to deny he never existed since it would rob the religion of it's power.


According to the Romans... they crucified jesus.



Avinash_Tyagi on 30 December 2008
Kasz216 said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Kasz216 said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
 

 

 No actually there isn't, in fact there is the Jesus myth hypothesis, so it has not passed the test of historical critiscism or certinty as there are those who hypothesize that the stories are not real

 

 

Those who hypothisize this are frauds.

Why else would the Romans... before they went Chrstian mind you.  Refrence that they crucified him after the fact if they didn't?

Actually there isn't many secular records of Jesus's crucifixtion, and the ones that do exist, like Tacitus, was written decades later

 

 

Yeah.  That's my point.  Decades later... while they still were pagans... the Romans refrence crucifying jesus.

Why would they do this?  When they have more to gain from denying his existence?

No doubt there is a record of jesus' execution, but it's no different then the record of the execution of a theif or another prophet.

It wasn't until decades later that Jesus became anything to write about in the non religious world.

Once Chrsitanity was proven it was here to stay and not just another crazy Jewish sect gone in a few months....

THEN we get histroical refrences of Romans talking about how they crucified jesus.

If they didn't, it would  make much more sense to deny he never existed since it would rob the religion of it's power.

 

See you think that i'm saying its some vast conspiracy, not at all, i'm saying it was a legend that was formed around stories, back then there was no tlephone, or newspaper, and no internent, and most couldn't read or write, rumors and stories were passed by word of motuh and like any game of telephone will show you each step they get changed and embellished.   The fact is none of that supports that there was a real jesus, only that a legend of jesus existed, like the legends of the greek/roman gods



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

Kasz216 on 30 December 2008
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Kasz216 said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Kasz216 said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:

 

 No actually there isn't, in fact there is the Jesus myth hypothesis, so it has not passed the test of historical critiscism or certinty as there are those who hypothesize that the stories are not real

 

 

Those who hypothisize this are frauds.

Why else would the Romans... before they went Chrstian mind you.  Refrence that they crucified him after the fact if they didn't?

Actually there isn't many secular records of Jesus's crucifixtion, and the ones that do exist, like Tacitus, was written decades later

 

 

Yeah.  That's my point.  Decades later... while they still were pagans... the Romans refrence crucifying jesus.

Why would they do this?  When they have more to gain from denying his existence?

No doubt there is a record of jesus' execution, but it's no different then the record of the execution of a theif or another prophet.

It wasn't until decades later that Jesus became anything to write about in the non religious world.

Once Chrsitanity was proven it was here to stay and not just another crazy Jewish sect gone in a few months....

THEN we get histroical refrences of Romans talking about how they crucified jesus.

If they didn't, it would  make much more sense to deny he never existed since it would rob the religion of it's power.

 

See you think that i'm saying its some vast conspiracy, not at all, i'm saying it was a legend that was formed around stories, back then there was no tlephone, or newspaper, and no internent, and most couldn't read or write, rumors and stories were passed by word of motuh and like any game of telephone will show you each step they get changed and embellished.   The fact is none of that supports that there was a real jesus, only that a legend of jesus existed, like the legends of the greek/roman gods

So.  Your saying the romans... made up the fact they crucified jesus to go along with the religion they were activly trying to wipe out?

 

 



pastro243 on 30 December 2008

I thought this thread was about hamas and crucifixion, not about if jesus was real or not.



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Kasz216 on 30 December 2008
pastro243 said:
I thought this thread was about hamas and crucifixion, not about if jesus was real or not.

It was... but the thread is fairly over.  I mean... They did it... it's horrible, shock.


It was either this or an arguement over whether the Palestinians should get more land back because the jews were put there by the west, and they should get it all anyway but will settle with the 1942 agerement.

Or that the Palestinians had a chance to have the 1942 agreement and decided to declare war instead and therefore they should be forced to lose more land then that including Juresalem.

It's an arguement that's been had quite a few times.


All in all the Palestinians should really just let it go.  They're only making things much harder on themselves... Israel is basically in an unassailable position for the palestinians to get what they want... and will be for the forseeable future.

Better to take the deal without Jerusalem, improve your quality of life, and just bitterly bide your time until Israel is at an assailable position and take it back.

What they're doing now is just pointless.