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Forums - General - Hamas legalizes Crucifixion

fkusumot said:
ssj12 said:

It makes perfect sense if you look at the confines of what it means to do a crucifixion. The only time it was used was when someone did something horrid against the empire or shook the general order of things.

If it is not used in the way it was originally meant to it would fall into basic torcher rather than defending the beliefs of your kingdom.

The crucifixion of Christ was justifiable but if some random joe gets crucified without stirring up a load of crap like Jesus did that it is not justifiable.

Wut? I thought Jesus was crucified with some petty thieves. Which Bible you been reading ssj?

Also, I thought Pontius didn't want to crucify Jesus but he bowed to political pressure. That makes it justifiable?

I havent touched a Bible since yesterday since two copies where at my register at WalMart. Otherwise havent touched one since I was 8.

Anyways it was the Romens that called for the crusifixion of Jesus.

 

 



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on earlier comments.

Calling jesus a Mythological being is wrong.... he's a theological being as his religion is still active. Saying he is a myth is insulting all who believe in him as myth implies nonexistence.
That a man inspired others and had many folowers needs no proving as it still happends often nowadays. This makes existance of a Jesus Character pretty certain... what should be argued is his whether his history is relatively faithfull and the reality of his divine origin.
Do remember that religions have often incorporated the tales of previous ones... However rare are the ones such as christianity and islam that create central figure for the religion that can be put on a time scale with ease. This is to say that these characters are real and not myth, even though their claims of being messia can be doubted.



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@Hephaestos: Any sacred story which can be interpreted in multiple ways can be called a myth, in academia myth doesn't mean a false story



 

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ssj12 said:
fkusumot said:
ssj12 said:
It makes perfect sense if you look at the confines of what it means to do a crucifixion. The only time it was used was when someone did something horrid against the empire or shook the general order of things.

If it is not used in the way it was originally meant to it would fall into basic torcher rather than defending the beliefs of your kingdom.

The crucifixion of Christ was justifiable but if some random joe gets crucified without stirring up a load of crap like Jesus did that it is not justifiable.
Wut? I thought Jesus was crucified with some petty thieves. Which Bible you been reading ssj?

Also, I thought Pontius didn't want to crucify Jesus but he bowed to political pressure. That makes it justifiable?
I havent touched a Bible since yesterday since two copies where at my register at WalMart. Otherwise havent touched one since I was 8.

Anyways it was the Romens that called for the crusifixion of Jesus.

I thought the Romans were the ones who did the crucifying, but the Jews were the ones pushing for it. 



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Final-Fan said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Final-Fan said:
I'm going to sleep now. Avinash_Tyagi, I leave you with this reiteration of an earlier point that may have gotten lost in the shuffle:

What exactly is your alternate theory here? How did his existence get manufactured in such a brief time? Why didn't anyone say anything like "wait a second that never happened, there was no such Jesus"?

To say simply that we aren't OMG 100% ABSOLUTELY sure of the "Jesus was real" view isn't good enough. There has to be a "Jesus wasn't real" view that at least makes some sense. What is it?
I already answered that question, one prevailing theory is that Jesus is actually an Amalgamation story, drawn from Mithras, Horus, Prometheus and other saviors

First off, it's not a "prevailing" anything.  Your skepticism is very much a fringe belief even among secular historians. 

Now, fine, the amalgamation theory.  But (1) how did the amalgamation form so quickly?  I mean, wouldn't it be awfully suspicious to fabricate the existence of someone who was supposedly around within living memory?  Why did no one deny this claim?  (2) How could such a blatant falsehood get into the writings of some of the best Roman historians of the day only a few decades later? 

Christianity was viciously opposed by Jews as heresy.  There were many attacks on an intellectual level as well as physical.  (3) Why the hell would there be absolutely no evidence that they didn't completely miss this golden opportunity to discredit the religion? 

(4) Looking at the amalgamation itself, that's quite a list.  Mithras was from a Roman religion of apparently Persian/Zoroastrian descent; Horus is Egyptian; Prometheus, Greek.  Mithras in particular is interesting, because it didn't become popular until the 3rd and 4th centuries and isn't even known to have existed prior to Jesus' lifetime.  Very interesting that Christianity could be "drawn" from a religion that seems to be contemporary with it at best.

 

 With the Mithraic stories, much of which became practiced in the first century through third centuries AD, around the time that many of the stories of christ were being written finalfan, remeber many stories were written decades, even the next century later, not to mention that the bible underwent revisions around that time as well, incorporating other pagan myths into it.

 

Also how it spread, well no telephone, no newspaper, no real record keeping, so things passed by word of mouth and since distance made fact checking harder, well rumors could become legend fast, so even the Jews or any other groups couldn't discredit them



 

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Avinash_Tyagi said:
Final-Fan said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Final-Fan said:
I'm going to sleep now. Avinash_Tyagi, I leave you with this reiteration of an earlier point that may have gotten lost in the shuffle:

What exactly is your alternate theory here? How did his existence get manufactured in such a brief time? Why didn't anyone say anything like "wait a second that never happened, there was no such Jesus"?

To say simply that we aren't OMG 100% ABSOLUTELY sure of the "Jesus was real" view isn't good enough. There has to be a "Jesus wasn't real" view that at least makes some sense. What is it?
I already answered that question, one prevailing theory is that Jesus is actually an Amalgamation story, drawn from Mithras, Horus, Prometheus and other saviors

First off, it's not a "prevailing" anything.  Your skepticism is very much a fringe belief even among secular historians. 

Now, fine, the amalgamation theory.  But (1) how did the amalgamation form so quickly?  I mean, wouldn't it be awfully suspicious to fabricate the existence of someone who was supposedly around within living memory?  Why did no one deny this claim?  (2) How could such a blatant falsehood get into the writings of some of the best Roman historians of the day only a few decades later? 

Christianity was viciously opposed by Jews as heresy.  There were many attacks on an intellectual level as well as physical.  (3) Why the hell would there be absolutely no evidence that they didn't completely miss this golden opportunity to discredit the religion? 

(4) Looking at the amalgamation itself, that's quite a list.  Mithras was from a Roman religion of apparently Persian/Zoroastrian descent; Horus is Egyptian; Prometheus, Greek.  Mithras in particular is interesting, because it didn't become popular until the 3rd and 4th centuries and isn't even known to have existed prior to Jesus' lifetime.  Very interesting that Christianity could be "drawn" from a religion that seems to be contemporary with it at best.

 

 With the Mithraic stories, much of which became practiced in the first century through third centuries AD, around the time that many of the stories of christ were being written finalfan, not to mention that the bible underwnet revisions around that time as well, incorporating other pagan myths into it

Care to explain what revisions were made to the Bible to incorporate more Pagan myths into it?



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

Final-Fan said:
ssj12 said:
fkusumot said:
ssj12 said:
It makes perfect sense if you look at the confines of what it means to do a crucifixion. The only time it was used was when someone did something horrid against the empire or shook the general order of things.

If it is not used in the way it was originally meant to it would fall into basic torcher rather than defending the beliefs of your kingdom.

The crucifixion of Christ was justifiable but if some random joe gets crucified without stirring up a load of crap like Jesus did that it is not justifiable.
Wut? I thought Jesus was crucified with some petty thieves. Which Bible you been reading ssj?

Also, I thought Pontius didn't want to crucify Jesus but he bowed to political pressure. That makes it justifiable?
I havent touched a Bible since yesterday since two copies where at my register at WalMart. Otherwise havent touched one since I was 8.

Anyways it was the Romens that called for the crusifixion of Jesus.

I thought the Romans were the ones who did the crucifying, but the Jews were the ones pushing for it. 

 

Wrong.  That's one of the key points that disproves the "New" Testament.  Jews at that time, for a number of reasons, wouldn't have pushed for his execution to begin with (due to when the event supposedly happened, and even more importantly Halacha, Jewish law, which only permits execution for certain things)

Long story short, there is no historical record outside of the New Testament (that was written at least 30 years after J.C.'s death) to backup any claims from the Christian scripture.  And the writing of Josephus confirming anything from the New Testament was long ago scientifically proven to be fraudulent statements added by the Church to give them an historical precidence to verify their claims.

I hardly think someone who knows nothing of halacha could debate such statements, because the very thought of this Jewish mob doesn't fit within the context of such laws.

 



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Comrade Tovya said:
Final-Fan said:
ssj12 said:
fkusumot said:
ssj12 said:
It makes perfect sense if you look at the confines of what it means to do a crucifixion. The only time it was used was when someone did something horrid against the empire or shook the general order of things.

If it is not used in the way it was originally meant to it would fall into basic torcher rather than defending the beliefs of your kingdom.

The crucifixion of Christ was justifiable but if some random joe gets crucified without stirring up a load of crap like Jesus did that it is not justifiable.
Wut? I thought Jesus was crucified with some petty thieves. Which Bible you been reading ssj?

Also, I thought Pontius didn't want to crucify Jesus but he bowed to political pressure. That makes it justifiable?
I havent touched a Bible since yesterday since two copies where at my register at WalMart. Otherwise havent touched one since I was 8.

Anyways it was the Romens that called for the crusifixion of Jesus.

I thought the Romans were the ones who did the crucifying, but the Jews were the ones pushing for it. 

Wrong.  That's one of the key points that disproves the "New" Testament.  Jews at that time, for a number of reasons, wouldn't have pushed for his execution to begin with (due to when the event supposedly happened, and even more importantly Halacha, Jewish law, which only permits execution for certain things)

Long story short, there is no historical record outside of the New Testament (that was written at least 30 years after J.C.'s death) to backup any claims from the Christian scripture.  And the writing of Josephus confirming anything from the New Testament was long ago scientifically proven to be fraudulent statements added by the Church to give them an historical precidence to verify their claims.

I hardly think someone who knows nothing of halacha could debate such statements, because the very thought of this Jewish mob doesn't fit within the context of such laws.

Then what of Tacitus' acount of Jesus' death by Potious Pilate? Did Tacitus lie too?



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

mrstickball said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Final-Fan said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Final-Fan said:
I'm going to sleep now. Avinash_Tyagi, I leave you with this reiteration of an earlier point that may have gotten lost in the shuffle:

What exactly is your alternate theory here? How did his existence get manufactured in such a brief time? Why didn't anyone say anything like "wait a second that never happened, there was no such Jesus"?

To say simply that we aren't OMG 100% ABSOLUTELY sure of the "Jesus was real" view isn't good enough. There has to be a "Jesus wasn't real" view that at least makes some sense. What is it?
I already answered that question, one prevailing theory is that Jesus is actually an Amalgamation story, drawn from Mithras, Horus, Prometheus and other saviors

First off, it's not a "prevailing" anything.  Your skepticism is very much a fringe belief even among secular historians. 

Now, fine, the amalgamation theory.  But (1) how did the amalgamation form so quickly?  I mean, wouldn't it be awfully suspicious to fabricate the existence of someone who was supposedly around within living memory?  Why did no one deny this claim?  (2) How could such a blatant falsehood get into the writings of some of the best Roman historians of the day only a few decades later? 

Christianity was viciously opposed by Jews as heresy.  There were many attacks on an intellectual level as well as physical.  (3) Why the hell would there be absolutely no evidence that they didn't completely miss this golden opportunity to discredit the religion? 

(4) Looking at the amalgamation itself, that's quite a list.  Mithras was from a Roman religion of apparently Persian/Zoroastrian descent; Horus is Egyptian; Prometheus, Greek.  Mithras in particular is interesting, because it didn't become popular until the 3rd and 4th centuries and isn't even known to have existed prior to Jesus' lifetime.  Very interesting that Christianity could be "drawn" from a religion that seems to be contemporary with it at best.

 

 With the Mithraic stories, much of which became practiced in the first century through third centuries AD, around the time that many of the stories of christ were being written finalfan, not to mention that the bible underwnet revisions around that time as well, incorporating other pagan myths into it

Care to explain what revisions were made to the Bible to incorporate more Pagan myths into it?

 

 Well constantine, after 312 AD, made significant changes to the Christian religion and had many aspects of the religion altered, blending it with Pagan myths at the time, councils were set up to revise the Bible, and decide which books would be considered acepted by the church and which would not



 

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Avinash_Tyagi said:
@Hephaestos: Any sacred story which can be interpreted in multiple ways can be called a myth, in academia myth doesn't mean a false story

 

And since this is an academia discution forum, I guess everybody has an academic understanding of the word?

one of the definitions of myth is "A fictitious story, person, or thing" and that is the one comonly refered to in academic words such as "mythomania"

All i'm saying is, I find the choice of words offensive especially when you  couple it with "I thought you Abrahamics were down with crucifixtion, don't you chrisitians stick pictures of your mythological messiah being crucified everywhere?"



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