A few months ago, some guy (game tester it seems) spilled some of the juicy bits on MS about the RROD history. And is in deep trouble now for apparently breaking his NDA. I can assure you that I have always and carefully read the NDAs I had to sign (and some are pretty specific and contain 7-digit figures for penalties if I talked about certain things).  In the end, you just have to swallow the numbers I give or continue to ignore them - (I have been involved in the mass manufacturing business for 25 years and had insight into how prices evolve and how cheap things should be to get produced at all). Also occasionally look up the word estimate in a dictionary, as my numbers are clearly worded so (And if you google around long enough, you will find similar numbers in hardware forums. It really is no magic art to estimate manufacturing costs _if and only if_ you know the manufacturing processes involved. Which some I happen to know, incidentally). And while you are at it, also look up the word libel. Your statements against Sony are pretty close there. Of you feel insulted by my calling it like that, well, life stinks (in the immortal words of Mel Brooks).

http://venturebeat.com/2008/09/05/xbox-360-defects-an-inside-history-of-microsofts-video-game-console-woes/

@drkohler

So you are declaring publicly that you are privy to corporate secrets, and have entered into a nondisclosure agreement with Microsoft? Your cryptic statements are meant to be cryptic not to cover your ass, but so you can try to create a mystique about yourself. Everyone look at me I am a super secret expert that trolls forums, and am perhaps a corporate agent. Out to spread the word or to do no good.

Honestly I am not impressed your logic is as convoluted as logic gets. How the hell does someone claiming to have violated an NDA, and your having actually read an NDA equate to you having special knowledge. The answer is it doesn't, but you would like other members to think it does. Hundreds of thousands of gamers sign NDAs every year as part of the beta testing process alone. Yeah real special fucking knowledge there my friend.

Oh I see I should trawl the net looking for numbers. Well no shit of coarse I will find numbers. There are a lot of people like you more then happy to just make shit up. They get their rocks off screwing with idiots who will buy into anything. Doing this makes them feel superior. I am also well versed in the term libel, and I sure as hell did not violate any laws regarding it. My statement was steeped in the hypothetical. You need to go review that word. There is a difference between saying something is and saying something would be.

Just as I am about to do now. Hypothetically if I were to judge you as a person I would probably consider you one of the following a Liar, a Troll, or a Corporate Shill. So here is to you Secret Agent man, and your cryptic nonsense. Back up your statements or keep your mouth shut. Claims of special knowledge don't impress this poster. Anyone can make up this bullshit.

Correct me if I am wrong but wasnt the price cut as follows:

Arcade from $279.99 to $199.99 - a $80 cut

Pro from $349.99 to $299.99 - a $50 cut

Elite from $449.99 to $399.99 - a $50 cut

Why is this massive?

@drkholer

Back up your statement otherwise you are just making shit up like many others on the internet.

Don't play stupid and invent stuff. I never said I work(ed) for MS (I didn't btw). In your very strange world, if I say "An Arcade costs around $240 to manufacture", I should then also submit a fifty page abstract of every project I have ever been involved in the industry (with full addresses of at least 5 contact names and phone numbers so you can call each of them to verify?) and add scans of every NDA I've ever signed, just to prove that I roughly know what I'm talking about? You just have to realise that there are people who happen to know "things", because half of their lives they have come into contact with "things". What these "things" are is completely irrelevant to this discussion. If you don't like the estimates I give for whatever reason, again, find sources that say otherwise and be happy with it.

I'm not going to continue to argue with you. I know my numbers are ok and you know I'm just making it up, so we agree to disagree.

Listen, because you make claims regarding the manufacturing costs of the different models of the 360, and the fact you come off with a degree of certainty you have to understand that the preponderance of evidence falls on you to back them up. I neither agree or disagree with your numbers because until I have a hard source then I don't have  any reason to state my thoughts on the matter without making the fact that they are estimations quite clear.

On the internet where anonymity is rule, sources must be used and cited in order to maintain a healthy debate. It is sad but true especially in communities such as this where personal preference sneaks its way into a lot of statements. Thats why people ask for sources. It's not that they don't want to believe you per say, but if we believed half of the stuff people pull out on here....well we don't wanna go there. It's all just a stalemate really.

Regarding the manufacturing costs of the different models it is still hard to make an educated guess as to whether they are turning a profit per console sold and which models are doing that. Given the the cost trends and length of time the 360 has been on the market I wouldnt be surprised if they are within 5-10% either way of breaking even. And if they are selling them at a loss the growth in software sales along with accessories should cover the loss. My estimates.

If every person needed solid documented evidence before they made an educated guess on VGchartz, the forums would be empty. This entire website is based on educated guesses for sales figures. I do not understand why people are getting all bent out of shape.

If you do not like drkohler's estimates, ignore them or make your own.

Dox or GTFO. The fact you are reacting in such a way against any minimal doubt upon your "facts" and "background" makes you lose credibility.

There's *many* ways to back your claims about your own background without "submit a fifty page abstract, etc etc".

Also, I wonder why anyone has a problem with this. It's exactly the same Sony did back in the day: use superior resources to those available to competitors in a market, resources coming from a strong parent company, to bankroll success using a loss-leading model.

edit@wiistation if someone claims to be involved in the industry enough to be able to gain knowledge about the real costs of the 360 and wants us to swallow his facts without proof, at least he should be making a convincing case about his background.

Anyone who is asking for documentation from drkohler needs to step back and consider that this information is just plain not available. All we can do is "guess". We rely upon anonymous information to further our knowledge, and make better guesses, and that's it. No docs, no nothing, or VGChartz would be pointless.

I'll put forth that drkohler does appear to have an awful lot of knowledge regarding the manufacturing process, and he's not using terminology that should be confusing to anyone whoeven remotely understands it (like myself). If you're confused by his statements.. step off. I can guarantee that anyone who didn't see a great deal of logic, or didn't understand some of the concepts he was talking about, doesn't know wth they are talking about.

Rather than spouting "prove it", stick your trolling neck out and give a reason why he should have to. What's your foundation for disagreeing with him, or are you just a foaming fanboy, who can't keep his mouth shut? If you understand the subject as well as he does, and you don't agree... you can type -- spell it out for us, since.. you know, you're an expert, and your claiming he's not.

As I stated, feel free to stick your neck out there and refute drkohler -- I'd love to see the rebuttal from another "expert".  Step up to the plate, gentlemen (and ladies)..  we're anxious for enlightenment.