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Forums - Gaming Discussion - So Sony really got it right with Blu Ray

What??? DVD overtook VHS finally in 2003 in every field...



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The Anarchyz said:

What??? DVD overtook VHS finally in 2003 in every field...

 

Wasnt that the VHS rental market that it overtook in 2003.

Sales were I believe a different matter. Shops couldnt wait to ditch the bulky low return VHS tapes.



The Anarchyz said:
crumas2 said:

It's a great format, and I hope to pick up a player as soon as a Sony/Toshiba/Pioneer/etc. brand unit can be had for $199 or less.

But they need to get the prices of the players and the movies down if they don't want it to stall.  I was at FYE yesterday and most of the movies were $24.99 and up.  That's a rediculous price for a format that's trying to supplant DVD as the dominant video media format.

DVDs were more expensive than VHS at first, then the prices dropped, that's the electronic cycle, with blu-ray it will be the same...

True, but Blu-ray movies haven't been dropping in price overall.  Yes, I can find discounts on Amazon, etc., and I can also find special deals, but when I walk into an FYE or Best Buy and the Blu-ray movies are on average about twice as expensive as the same movie on DVD, that is a problem.

Getting this tech to go mass-market means the prices will need to come down first.  Blu-ray sales are still a tiny percentage of DVD sales.

I really hope it does succeed, I live in a rural area, and while I love my Dish HD (it looks fantastic on my Sony Bravia LCD TV, regardless what people say regarding bit-rate, true resolution, etc.), I will not be downloading NetFlicks movies any time soon, and I like to own my movies on optical discs.

But they have to get the @#%$# prices of the movies down... NOW!



epicurean said:
Grampy said:
windbane said:
Grampy said:
Don’t bother calling me a Blu-ray hater because I have two BD burners and several more players for work. I have begun to wonder if that was a mistake. The cost of hard disk space is falling much faster than BD.

1TB disk <$100 ($0.10/GB reusable - $0.20/GB in RAID 0) so it’s cheaper to store it than to put it on Blu-ray at about $0.24/GB. Standard DVD cost about $0.04/GB, DVD-DL about $0.11/GB. Unless the cost is brought down very quickly, BD may never see wide spread adoption for anything but movies.

I am already finding increasing skepticism and resistance at professional conferences to the idea of it becoming a major data storage medium.

 

hah, you are such a blu-ray hater!  You bought your laptop without knowing it even had blu-ray.

Anyway, the cost of storing on a hard drive has always been cheaper than storing on optical media.  The point of having it on a disc is an increase in portability and insurrance that it won't go away when your hard drive dies.

No, actually that hasn't been and even today isn't true.

25x25GB BD/$300=$0.46/GB

100 x 700MB CD/$15 =$0.21/GB

25x8.5 DVD DL/$25=$0.12/GB

 

 

1TB HD/$100=$0.10/GB

800GB tape/ $35 = $0.04/GB

100x 4.7GB DVD/$21=$0.04/GB

Blu-ray is over 10x more expensive than DVD  and almost 5x more than HD server space. Not very attractive.And not very portable since so few use it.

As far as using optical media as"insurrance that it won't go away when your hard drive dies" , no thats actually what the RAID is for

 

 

 I don't think many home users have a RAID set up.  And even people that DO have RAID's (including companies) might not have off-site storage.  Granted backup tape hasn't been brought up, and is almost certainly cheaper (even cheaper than DVD).  That all being said, why do you seem to think blu-ray's prices will remain static?  That makes no sense whatsoever.  Was DVD the cheapest solution when it came out?  I think maybe you should rescind your comment that you're no blu-ray hater - you're coming up with some reasosn that are stretching, to say the least.

At current prices many people are setting up home RAID and many better quality desktops and notebooks come with it, or offer it as an option. Also, if you care to reread the list ,backup tape IS listed and it currently costs about the same as DVD per GB. It is still used  because of  high total storage capacity in applications where access speed is unimportant.

I'm a professional. I don't care what format “wins”, I will use whatever is cost effective. I purchased the BD burners anticipating that the cost would come down and acceptance for data storage grow much faster than it has. If they do fine. If not, I will use something else.

Unlike fanboys and Sony, I don't have the luxury or inclination to sacrifice my lab's efficiency or my professional reputation to have an agenda on behalf of some storage media. I have used 8", 5 1/4", 3 1/2" floppies, Zip, Jaz, tape, CD, DVD, DVD-DL and BD in turn. And if BD doesn't earn its keep, I'll move on to whatever's next. I don't really give a rat's ass. None of them sends me a check.

If you choose not to believe me fine, I can only assume that the concept of professionalism is not one you hold to.



Grampy said:
epicurean said:
Grampy said:
windbane said:
Grampy said:
Don’t bother calling me a Blu-ray hater because I have two BD burners and several more players for work. I have begun to wonder if that was a mistake. The cost of hard disk space is falling much faster than BD.

1TB disk <$100 ($0.10/GB reusable - $0.20/GB in RAID 0) so it’s cheaper to store it than to put it on Blu-ray at about $0.24/GB. Standard DVD cost about $0.04/GB, DVD-DL about $0.11/GB. Unless the cost is brought down very quickly, BD may never see wide spread adoption for anything but movies.

I am already finding increasing skepticism and resistance at professional conferences to the idea of it becoming a major data storage medium.

 

hah, you are such a blu-ray hater!  You bought your laptop without knowing it even had blu-ray.

Anyway, the cost of storing on a hard drive has always been cheaper than storing on optical media.  The point of having it on a disc is an increase in portability and insurrance that it won't go away when your hard drive dies.

No, actually that hasn't been and even today isn't true.

25x25GB BD/$300=$0.46/GB

100 x 700MB CD/$15 =$0.21/GB

25x8.5 DVD DL/$25=$0.12/GB

 

 

1TB HD/$100=$0.10/GB

800GB tape/ $35 = $0.04/GB

100x 4.7GB DVD/$21=$0.04/GB

Blu-ray is over 10x more expensive than DVD  and almost 5x more than HD server space. Not very attractive.And not very portable since so few use it.

As far as using optical media as"insurrance that it won't go away when your hard drive dies" , no thats actually what the RAID is for

 

 

 I don't think many home users have a RAID set up.  And even people that DO have RAID's (including companies) might not have off-site storage.  Granted backup tape hasn't been brought up, and is almost certainly cheaper (even cheaper than DVD).  That all being said, why do you seem to think blu-ray's prices will remain static?  That makes no sense whatsoever.  Was DVD the cheapest solution when it came out?  I think maybe you should rescind your comment that you're no blu-ray hater - you're coming up with some reasosn that are stretching, to say the least.

At current prices many people are setting up home RAID and many better quality desktops and notebooks come with it, or offer it as an option. Also, if you care to reread the list ,backup tape IS listed and it currently costs about the same as DVD per GB. It is still used  because of  high total storage capacity in applications where access speed is unimportant.

I'm a professional. I don't care what format “wins”, I will use whatever is cost effective. I purchased the BD burners anticipating that the cost would come down and acceptance for data storage grow much faster than it has. If they do fine. If not, I will use something else.

Unlike fanboys and Sony, I don't have the luxury or inclination to sacrifice my lab's efficiency or my professional reputation to have an agenda on behalf of some storage media. I have used 8", 5 1/4", 3 1/2" floppies, Zip, Jaz, tape, CD, DVD, DVD-DL and BD in turn. And if BD doesn't earn its keep, I'll move on to whatever's next. I don't really give a rat's ass. None of them sends me a check.

If you choose not to believe me fine, I can only assume that the concept of professionalism is not one you hold to.

 

 I too am an IT pro, and I didnt' buy blu-ray to be my data storage solution so early in its lifetime.  I don't see how it could have been seen as the cost-efficient thing to do at the time, but I'm not in your situation and don't know the challenges for your business.

While RAID me be offered for some home solutions, I sure dont' see it very often.  In fact, I've never seen it, but I'm guessing it is offered.  That being said, i think its quite obvious at the present the blu-ray is not a great answer for use as a storage medium for data.  However, as I already said, the cost will come down.  It came down with dvd, it came down with cd, it comes down with everything.  I'm sorry your current  Blu-Ray backups aren't as cheap as you'd like for you, but I don't think its fair to say that points to the formats downfall.  After all, its use as a data storage medium is only one thing blu-ray can be used for.  It seems to be doing pretty well selling movies currently (one need only look at the "dark knight" sales figure), and the more it sells, the more it will come down in price.

And as far as the "I can only assume that the concept of professionalism is not one you hold to" goes - wow, for someone who goes by the name "grampy", that was...wow.



Owner of PS4 Pro, Xbox One, Switch, PS Vita, and 3DS

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kanariya said:
BD will replace DVD in a few years jsut like DVD replaced VHS.

It didn't happen over night.

 

 

Actually, DVD replacing VHS almost did happen overnight. That's how you knew that VHS's days were numbered. It took only a couple years for DVD to catch on and then explode as the primary format for movies. Blu-Ray will not accomplish this task for a variety of reasons:

1.  To the average consumer, the difference from DVD to Blu-Ray isn't enough.  It's not as dramatic a change as VHS to DVD.  It looks like minor advancement for much money.

2.  DVD is too well engrained.  Everybody has and can easily afford DVD players these days.  People took years getting ready for a format to replace VHS--that format ruled for 25 years (give or take).  Other formats like Beta and Laserdisc failed in the mainstream market.  They were the "higher quality, more expensive" products that didn't speak to regular consumers who had budgets.  People are now finally comfortable with DVD--the average consumer isn't going to jump up and just move on to a new format just because it's there.  To most people, it's a waste of money to suddenly switch gears on something they've just gotten used to.  They aren't going to turn around and suddenly offload all their DVD's to re-purchase their whole collection on Blu-Ray.  I still have VHS that I don't feel the need to replace with DVD yet.

3.  Sony will not even use it next time.  Kojima already indicated that MGS4 maxed the Blu-Ray disk.  And as history shows, Sony has used a different storage medium for every single one of their game systems.  CD, DVD, UMD, Blu-Ray.   

4.  Not everything needs Blu-Ray.  Unless it's some Hollywood blockbuster that will actually take advantage of all the glorious HD crap Blu-Ray has to offer, there's no reason to have all that HD-ness.  Troma films do not need Blu-Ray.  Independant cinema does not need Blu-Ray.  Box set TV series from forgotten 80's sitcoms do not need Blu-Ray (that's right, crap like Alf and that awful show with the robot girl and Growinig Pains).  Porn does not need Blu-Ray.  Porn costs enough as it is without needing to pay $20 more just to see the fine detail on some guy's sweaty, flopping sack.  Underground films do not need Blu-Ray.  DVD's can be produced on the cheap and sold for cheap and it's much easier to churn out classic/lost/forgotten/etc movies/films/media to DVD than it is to do it on Blu-Ray.  More people own DVD players and are familiar with DVD, so it's a much safer gamble to release (often awesome) B-grade shlock like Unhinged, Reanimator, Puppet Master, and various old 80's, 70's, 60's, 50's films on DVD.  The vast, vast, vast majority of films released do not, and will not, benefit from being on Blu-Ray.  Most of this stuff isn't AAA Hollywood awesomeness.  Most of it is B, C, D, Z-grade stuff.  The vast majority of released films are of this nature.  What possible advantage would Terror Firmer or the Toxic Avenger possibly have being on Blu-Ray? 

5.  Most of the world is still Standard Def.  HDTV's are finally catching on, but they're still expensive.  Old tube SD TV's still last for ages before going bad.  Hell, my 27" Sharp still has a pretty awesome picture.  Why would Blu-Ray replace DVD when HD hasn't even replaced most TV's?  Sure, maybe in hyper-1st world nations like the US, parts of Europe, and parts of Asia (especially S. Korea and Japan) are moving into HDTV territory.  But most of the rest of the world is not. 

 

Blu-Ray is not growing by the same leaps and bounds that VHS and DVD did.  It's the new Laserdisc.  It's the higher-defintion, much fancier product that is for the people who can both afford it and can live with dumping all that extra money for not that much better picture.  The thing is, it's more accessible and successful than Laserdisc.  But it is not the way of the future, nor will it become standard. 

There will be another completely different, yet unknown format that will replace DVD's.  And it won't be here for quite some time.  It'll come at a time when 1080i just isn't "HD enough."  And it will come when mainstream consumers are ready to completely abandon the old format.  Hell, I can get a 3-pack of zany zombie films, including notorious Zombie Holocaust for $15 in a DVD set.  Not only am I highly unlikely to find that on Blu-Ray, but the movie would be by itself and cost $25 at least.  Which sounds like the more successful format?



"It's the new Laserdisc. "

It's already outsold Laserdisc. Did Laserdisc ever sell a million copies of a movie the first week it was out?



Owner of PS4 Pro, Xbox One, Switch, PS Vita, and 3DS

Blu ray is suddenly kicking up a storm...i think its on the verge of becoming very established



I hope my 360 doesn't RRoD
         "Suck my balls!" - Tag courtesy of Fkusmot

colonelstubbs said:
Blu ray is suddenly kicking up a storm...i think its on the verge of becoming very established

 

 

Established, yes.

Replacing DVD, no.



Lots of reports around the world are saying that Blu-ray is doing well despite the crisis. Of course it'll take years to get over DVD in sales and market share but it'll do it.



Play my LittleBigPlanet level: Mystic Runner. Thanks!