By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Sales - The Sales Cross Over: It's Real. What are the implications industry wide?

Not much will change.

1) Third-parties already have all their top teams working on HD engines and titles and that isn't going to suddenly change for another year or two at least.

2) Third-parties already have the engines build for easy game churning on the HD consoles, not to mention the easy availability of good engines to license, where they'd have to start from scratch on the Wii to make a good-looking title there.

3) Third-parties can still sell to a bigger userbase by going 360/PS3/PC multiplat.

4) Third-parties are still afraid of trying to compete in selling software head-to-head with Nintendo, whether that's justified or not.

You'll see a whole lot of posturing and empty announcements (already have been really with all the financial statements) but not much will actually change in practical terms.



Around the Network
dallas said:
The sales cross-over, what does it mean?

In short it means that the Wii will continue to do well, and will continue to attract a fat amount of 3rd party support.

For the 360, its lower sales can't help at all. I think that the most likely candidate for any of the big 3 to do rather poorly this generation is in fact the 360 since it has shown little momentum lately in terms of sales, product enhancement, and to some degree it has been lacking with attracting 3rd party support to the favor of the PS3 more so than 5 or 6 months ago.

The most recent announcement of the $50 price cut sounds like a worrysome signal, which tells me that while they are cutting the price $50, they just dont have the money right now ( with the enormous cost of refurbing) to bump the price cut up to $75 or $80, which was what they initially seemed to be thinking about if you guys remember the first reports of the 360s price cut.

In fact, there have been calls from MS's shareholders to sell off the game making division, meaning that the shareholders think that at this point, the profitability of the 360 might not materialize for quite a while, perhaps until Q2 or Q3 2008. Keep in mind that the Falcon/added heatsink version of the 360 will not solve their refurb problems immediately. Because so many easily overheated 360s are on the market, they will have problems for quite a while. It may take until the end of 2008 for this not to be such an issue for MS, meanwhile Nintendo and Sony will be able to put their earnings towards more useful ventures, ie more game development, product development (home, BD, DVR etc) or a pricecut ( more likely for the PS3 than the Wii because of the wii's upstart success.

So, in terms of hardware, the 360 won't have a lot of forward momentum, as it just won't have enough tools and budgetable resources to compete with the Wii/PS3. Software sales should remain very good for the 360, as well as its online sales.

On a sidenote, this whole game thing for MS seems pretty unusual for me. Microsoft has traditionally been a software company, that is what they are good at, that is what they know best. Console gaming is a lot more than just taking care of your software, as they are painfully finding out with the feared RROD problem. I think that MS should make this generation its last foray into console gaming and instead possibly get into the software side of gaming more than it has been. MS is overall a very good company, with the size to dominate whatever it gets into, but this whole console gaming thing has been the clumsiest performance that I could possibly see.

 Zune says hi.



couchmonkey said:
Well, MS is not exactly short on cash, it's just trying to put on a show for investors to justify the continuation of the Xbox brand in the face of PS3's relative failure this generation.

At this point it would take a minor miracle for PS3 to become a true set-top box threat to PC, which is one of MS' main reasons for entering the market. So the Xbox division is trying to justify its ongoing existance by making a profit for a change.

If PS3 suddenly started performing a lot better, MS would respond, don't doubt it.

As it stands, Nintendo is lucky that MS doesn't really seem too serious about competing with Wii.

Actually, they're lucky that the Microsoft entertainment division is incompetent, and that they themsevles seem to have some talent for this whole games thing.



couchmonkey said:
Well, MS is not exactly short on cash, it's just trying to put on a show for investors to justify the continuation of the Xbox brand in the face of PS3's relative failure this generation.

At this point it would take a minor miracle for PS3 to become a true set-top box threat to PC, which is one of MS' main reasons for entering the market. So the Xbox division is trying to justify its ongoing existance by making a profit for a change.

If PS3 suddenly started performing a lot better, MS would respond, don't doubt it.

As it stands, Nintendo is lucky that MS doesn't really seem too serious about competing with Wii.

Exactly, and I didnt say that the MS corporation is short of $$$, only that the gaming division seems to be given a limited budget based on what subjective sources that we are able to interpret.



Phalanx said:
dallas said:
The sales cross-over, what does it mean?

In short it means that the Wii will continue to do well, and will continue to attract a fat amount of 3rd party support.

For the 360, its lower sales can't help at all. I think that the most likely candidate for any of the big 3 to do rather poorly this generation is in fact the 360 since it has shown little momentum lately in terms of sales, product enhancement, and to some degree it has been lacking with attracting 3rd party support to the favor of the PS3 more so than 5 or 6 months ago.

The most recent announcement of the $50 price cut sounds like a worrysome signal, which tells me that while they are cutting the price $50, they just dont have the money right now ( with the enormous cost of refurbing) to bump the price cut up to $75 or $80, which was what they initially seemed to be thinking about if you guys remember the first reports of the 360s price cut.

In fact, there have been calls from MS's shareholders to sell off the game making division, meaning that the shareholders think that at this point, the profitability of the 360 might not materialize for quite a while, perhaps until Q2 or Q3 2008. Keep in mind that the Falcon/added heatsink version of the 360 will not solve their refurb problems immediately. Because so many easily overheated 360s are on the market, they will have problems for quite a while. It may take until the end of 2008 for this not to be such an issue for MS, meanwhile Nintendo and Sony will be able to put their earnings towards more useful ventures, ie more game development, product development (home, BD, DVR etc) or a pricecut ( more likely for the PS3 than the Wii because of the wii's upstart success.

So, in terms of hardware, the 360 won't have a lot of forward momentum, as it just won't have enough tools and budgetable resources to compete with the Wii/PS3. Software sales should remain very good for the 360, as well as its online sales.

On a sidenote, this whole game thing for MS seems pretty unusual for me. Microsoft has traditionally been a software company, that is what they are good at, that is what they know best. Console gaming is a lot more than just taking care of your software, as they are painfully finding out with the feared RROD problem. I think that MS should make this generation its last foray into console gaming and instead possibly get into the software side of gaming more than it has been. MS is overall a very good company, with the size to dominate whatever it gets into, but this whole console gaming thing has been the clumsiest performance that I could possibly see.

 Zune says hi.


Come again?



Around the Network
couchmonkey said:
Well, MS is not exactly short on cash, it's just trying to put on a show for investors to justify the continuation of the Xbox brand in the face of PS3's relative failure this generation.

At this point it would take a minor miracle for PS3 to become a true set-top box threat to PC, which is one of MS' main reasons for entering the market. So the Xbox division is trying to justify its ongoing existance by making a profit for a change.

If PS3 suddenly started performing a lot better, MS would respond, don't doubt it.

As it stands, Nintendo is lucky that MS doesn't really seem too serious about competing with Wii.

Microsoft is doing what they can within reason.  Their investors are going to let them throw money out of the window to the tune of over $6,000,000,000 so far, and they've missed it time and again when they said they'd be profitable.    One thing that's clear is that Microsoft is very far from the Xbox brand giving them a profit overall, and the first step in that direction is a profitable year.  They want to show investors that they can take that first step, and if they can, investors could reason they may only be half a decade from recovering their huge losses so far.

There is almost nothing MS could do it make the 360 outsell the Wii right now.  Microsoft knows this, so they've redefined their race from "the Wii can't compete because it is laughably weak" to "oh snap, they're virtually assured to end up ahead of us so let's say that our only competition is Sony, then say that Sony does nothing but video games whereas we are well diversified."

Of course, reality is the opposite of what Microsoft has said (Sony is far more profitably diverse than Microsoft), but Microsoft is trying to convince investors.  Perception is very important.



compared to last gen MS will have:

increased marketshare in all regions
increased profitablity
improved Live, including movie distribution

of course the RROD is a big stumble, but they will eventually meet all their goals and set up for XB720.



Don't expect Microsoft to pull out after this generation. Losses right now are like ~$7,000,000,000 for the Entertainment Division since Xbox launched. By the end of the generation, losses will either be ~$10,000,000,000 (Microsoft keeps losing money) or more like $ ~5,000,000,000 (360 becomes profitable for a while).

Most analysts believe Microsoft won't leave unless they lose over $20,000,000,000 on Xbox brand/consoles/gaming. They have at least two more generations of huge losses for that. At some point before then, I think that Microsoft will be consistently profitable in the industry.

As for the 3rd parties...economics right now make the support about a dead heat. High end PCs, 360 and PS3 have ~14+ million users, Wii has ~ 10 million users. The 1.4x greater userbase offsets the extra expense (say on average it is 2x as expensive to develop for 360/PS3 over Wii) in cost for developing for 360/PS3. If Wii has 20 million users by year end and PS3+360 amounts to 22 million users, the economics shift to Wii - especially in Japan (Wii sales> 360+PS3), and by the end of the year in Europe Wii sales could be greater than PS3+360 combined. Because of the delay in the USA market, 360 and PS3 will continue to get strong support. However, most of the biggest publishers need Europe/Japan, which is why I think the change will begin with the biggest publishers by region (Ubi Soft, EA, Square-Enix) and the smallest/niche publishers (Atlus, Majesco) before reaching the middling developers (Take Two, Codemasters, Midway) who have the most to lose from reading the market wrong and reacting poorly...



People are difficult to govern because they have too much knowledge.

When there are more laws, there are more criminals.

- Lao Tzu

I think one thing not taken into account is what the Deluge of games onto the Wii would cause, which is lower sales per game on an already more "limited" MSRP.

Its strange, but the $60 MSRP for the 360/PS3 and attractive Paid DLC Options, cost gamers, but help insure that developers can hope to recoup most of their money either quickly or in the long run. More so when the Used Game market is eating their profits alive.



Vote for Ron Paul 2008

Only Anti-War and Anti-Taxes Republican

Freedom is a message everyone can embrace!

The primary reason we haven't seen a major shift yet (and won't see one for awhile) is simply development times ...
Many of the highest quality games of the previous generation took 18 to 24 months to develop and (I expect) many of the highest quality PS3/XBox 360 games probably are in the 24 to 30 month of development range; this means that (in the worst case scenerio) it could be 54 months from when the Wii launched before we saw a game released from certain developers.
On average, I would expect that you would start seeing development resources that were shifted from PS3/XBox 360 development release games 24 to 48 months after the Wii had released (assuming that the Wii was still popular when the game begins development).