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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Are 3rd party publishers sealing their own demise?

Edit: Below is a long rant I wrote at 1am but here it is in a nutshell:  In reponse to losses and layoffs both EA and THQ are reducing he number of games being made and instead trying to make one or two 'blockbuster' releases to compete with CoD:MW2, Halo4, etc.  While quality is better than quantity I suggest that's a suicidal approach unless you make more games for more types of gamers - evergreen games especially to create a stable dependable income in case your blockbuster flops.   It's working for Nintendo, Ubisoft & Activision both of whom have more various casual brands, not just casual titles (IE: Wii,Mario/Imagine, MyCoach, Petz/WoW,GH).   (And yes, I mention Sims - but EA needs something fresher)

 

While Nintendo continues to rack in billions with the unstoppable Wii/DS and their cataloge of evergreen titles much of the rest of the industry is floundering.   I just read a couple articles which amount to: Activision see huge increase in profit (CoDWaW/GH:WT) but THQ has huge loss, cuts 250 jobs/games.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-games6-2008nov06,0,7224919.story

THQ's response:

"There is a softness at retail, not just in the U.S. but globally," THQ Chief Executive Brian Farrell said in an interview. "The big titles are still working. So we're going to focus our energies on fewer titles, make them bigger and better."

In another article EA posts big losses, and cuts more jobs, cancels more games.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-games10-2008dec10,0,5143813.story

EA's response:

Company spokesman Jeff Brown said consumers this year were buying more intensely from among the top five bestselling games, whereas in the past they had spread their purchases more among the top 20. So publishers are deciding to make fewer titles.

"We are going to make some changes in our publishing strategy to publish fewer games but making bigger bets on them," Brown said.

 

Are these people stupid?! Or just plain blind?  Worse, from what I've seen this is a prevading attitude in the industry.  Games have to be bigger!  Better!! More expensive!! If we are to compete.   Are they not listening to themselves?  Only the top, the creme de la creme of AAA action games are selling.   The top 5.  Not everyone can be in that group.  Bigger bets will mean bigger losers, bigger losses and bigger layoffs.

Nor do they seem to realize why this is.   In the PS2 days a broader range of games sold well and everyone could benefit.   Now only a handful of games are money makers.  Why?  Because the 360/PS3 have a narrower market than the PS2.  PS2 was last generation's Wii and PS3 put together.   Now the more hardcore and casual sector's have been split.  And while the 'core' gamers buy a lot of games even they have finite cash.  They are also the most discriminating consumer and the one most likely distracted by the next big thing.  A couple poor reviews and your game is history.  Forgotten almost instantly.   On the PS2 developers had the benefit of the more casual consumers taking up the slack and buying AA games because they want what interests them and are less concerned with review scores.

But this generation 3rd party developers have treated the casual market which is by and large on Wii like idiots and saved all there tops titles for the HD core gamers.   They never made any AAA Wii games, never developed a market on Wii for those types of titles and now doubt they can sell any on Wii.

The other factor of course is development costs.  This is a huge problem.  There's a reason Wii isn't HD.  Nintendo correctly realized it wasn't worth the cost.   If you made a game on PS2 for $10-30m for a 100m userbase you had a good chance of realizing profit.  Now they are making, mostly, the same games in HD for a 35m userbase at three times the cost.   Some games are realizing similar sales despite the smaller userbase but none are realizing the same profits.  And those that sell less because of a smaller and more core userbase are screwed with huge losses.

What should they do? Diversify.  Ubisoft makes some core games like Assassin's Creed and PoP but they also have the Imagine, Petz, My Coach, RRR and other lines that cater to totally different market segments.   Ubisoft is profitting because of it.  Even if one AAA title (Haze) bombs, they have stable profit from those casual titles until the next AAA game releases.  Now Ubisoft has some pretty crappy casual titles and I don't endorse selling 'casual' gamers crap - give them respect and quality too and they'll reward you but tapping the expanded market is the way to go. 

Yes, EA has Boom Blox and THQ De Blob.  But Ubisoft and Activision have casual brands (Imagine/GH) not casual titles.  EA's only casual brand is the very long in the tooth Sims (MySims) and maybe Rock Band which they've totally screwed the pooch on when it comes to Wii.  THQ has none and frankly De Blob (imo) isn't all that casual either.

Now if they simply cannot grasp what Nintendo is doing with evergreen titles then do like Ubisoft - target a sub-set of people (girls) or like Sega is trying to do (35+ gamers - Conduit/Madworld/HoTD:Overkill).  Heck there's this huge market of adult women who are almost totally ignored currently.  Make something for them.   Or make AAA games for the gamers owning Wiis!

But no.  They'd rather cancel AA games and some AAA games and try to outdo Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 next Christmas.   Does Activision look worried to you?  No, me neither.  See you at the funeral.



 

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Different strokes. I bet that even if Ubisoft didn't have the Petz and Imagine stuff they would still be making money. With the exception of Endwar all the Tom Clancy games have sold well, and Assassin's Creed made bank.

There's still a large market for those kind of games. It may not be as large as the "expanded" market, but making games for it can be profitable. All the "support Wii or die" talk is really getting tiring



De85 said:
Different strokes. I bet that even if Ubisoft didn't have the Petz and Imagine stuff they would still be making bleeding money badly. With the exception of Endwar all the Tom Clancy games have sold well, and Assassin's Creed made bank.

There's still a large market for those kind of games. It may not be as large as the "expanded" market, but making games for it can be profitable. All the "support Wii or die" talk is really getting tiring

Uhm?... *fixed*

 

HC games aren't that profitable anymore. Bets are higher and risk are higher. Thats really not the way you should run your business. :)



What are you trying to say? Wii doesn't have any 3rd party AAA-games and then you call Haze an AAA-title. What? :D

Why wouldn't companies sell crap to customers if those customers buy it? I don't think you would have any interest to make an "AAA-title" if you could get good profits on games like mario&sonic, carnival games,game party, high school musical,deca sports,cooking mama and so on. That would be just stupid.

Oh and the hd-userbase is at 40 million, not 35 million. ;)



Cooking Mama is pretty fun



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Well a lot of casual gamers buy sports games & EA is bringing more sports games to the Wii. They are also working on EA Fit, a mario kart type game, & i think i remember hearing a tennis game for the Wii.

So i think EA has started to correct their problem & are still working on many games.
It's possible they said it the way they did to explain the lay-offs. Less games less work. But if they straight out said, less concentration on HD games & more on Wii games, that doesn't explain lay-offs well & would piss off a lot of fanboys.

Just a thought.



Gamerace said:

I call this the PS2/Wii effect.  Malstrom calls it a flood.  While Nintendo continues to rack in billions with the unstoppable Wii/DS and their cataloge of evergreen titles much of the rest of the industry is floundering.   I just read a couple articles which amount to: Activision see huge increase in profit (CoDWaW/GH:WT) but THQ has huge loss, cuts 250 jobs/games.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-games6-2008nov06,0,7224919.story

THQ's response:

"There is a softness at retail, not just in the U.S. but globally," THQ Chief Executive Brian Farrell said in an interview. "The big titles are still working. So we're going to focus our energies on fewer titles, make them bigger and better."

In another article EA posts big losses, and cuts more jobs, cancels more games.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-games10-2008dec10,0,5143813.story

EA's response:

Company spokesman Jeff Brown said consumers this year were buying more intensely from among the top five bestselling games, whereas in the past they had spread their purchases more among the top 20. So publishers are deciding to make fewer titles.

"We are going to make some changes in our publishing strategy to publish fewer games but making bigger bets on them," Brown said.

 

Are these people stupid?! Or just plain blind?  Worse, from what I've seen this is a prevading attitude in the industry.  Games have to be bigger!  Better!! More expensive!! If we are to compete.   Are they not listening to themselves?  Only the top, the creme de la creme of AAA action games are selling.   The top 5.  Not everyone can be in that group.  Bigger bets will mean bigger losers, bigger losses and bigger layoffs.

Nor do they seem to realize why this is.   In the PS2 days a broader range of games sold well and everyone could benefit.   Now only a handful of games are money makers.  Why?  Because the 360/PS3 have a narrower market than the PS2.  PS2 was last generation's Wii and PS3 put together.   Now the more hardcore and casual sector's have been split.  And while the 'core' gamers buy a lot of games even they have finite cash.  They are also the most discriminating consumer and the one most likely distracted by the next big thing.  A couple poor reviews and your game is history.  Forgotten almost instantly.   On the PS2 developers had the benefit of the more casual consumers taking up the slack and buying AA games because they want what interests them and are less concerned with review scores.

But this generation 3rd party developers have treated the casual market which is by and large on Wii like idiots and saved all there tops titles for the HD core gamers.   They never made any AAA Wii games, never developed a market on Wii for those types of titles and now doubt they can sell any on Wii.

The other factor of course is development costs.  This is a huge problem.  There's a reason Wii isn't HD.  Nintendo correctly realized it wasn't worth the cost.   If you made a game on PS2 for $10-30m for a 100m userbase you had a good chance of realizing profit.  Now they are making, mostly, the same games in HD for a 35m userbase at three times the cost.   Some games are realizing similar sales despite the smaller userbase but none are realizing the same profits.  And those that sell less because of a smaller and more core userbase are screwed with huge losses.

What should they do? Diversify.  Ubisoft makes some core games like Assassin's Creed and PoP but they also have the Imagine, Petz, My Coach, RRR and other lines that cater to totally different market segments.   Ubisoft is profitting because of it.  Even if one AAA title (Haze) bombs, they have stable profit from those casual titles until the next AAA game releases.  Now Ubisoft has some pretty crappy casual titles and I don't endorse selling 'casual' gamers crap - give them respect and quality too and they'll reward you but tapping the expanded market is the way to go. 

Yes, EA has Boom Blox and THQ De Blob.  But Ubisoft and Activision have casual brands (Imagine/GH) not casual titles.  EA's only casual brand is the very long in the tooth Sims (MySims) and maybe Rock Band which they've totally screwed the pooch on when it comes to Wii.  THQ has none and frankly De Blob (imo) isn't all that casual either.

Now if they simply cannot grasp what Nintendo is doing with evergreen titles then do like Ubisoft - target a sub-set of people (girls) or like Sega is trying to do (35+ gamers - Conduit/Madworld/HoTD:Overkill).  Heck there's this huge market of adult women who are almost totally ignored currently.  Make something for them.   Or make AAA games for the gamers owning Wiis!

But no.  They'd rather cancel AA games and some AAA games and try to outdo Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 next Christmas.   Does Activision look worried to you?  No, me neither.  See you at the funeral.

They don't really have a choice.

EA needs to generate several billion of dollars of revenue every year to keep sales just steady and Boom Blox might be nice and all but you hundreds of Bloom Blox to generate that kind of revenue...

What is happening too is, especially with the recession some gamers tend to purchase the AAA titles and rent the others and that's the revenue loss for the non AAA titles.

If you look at these holydays too there were way too many A+ titles released at the same time and some are suffering due to that so they need to cut back on the number of titles ( and they need to spread them more over the year.......).

There's room for 4-5 AAA titles around the holydays ( CoD and GeoW2 didn't seem to affect each others sales much) so each of the big company can have its big title...

Like I already said in the past, the gaming industry is becoming like the movie industry. Each studio will have it's blockbuster they are betting on and they will market the shit out of it ( the same way every year we get 4-5 blockbuster movies in the May-July time-frame).



PS3-Xbox360 gap : 1.5 millions and going up in PS3 favor !

PS3-Wii gap : 20 millions and going down !

I'm betting that Activision's profit surge has more to do with Wrath of the Lich King than Guitar Hero and Call of Duty. World of Warcraft probably hauled in close to $2 billion in revenue in 2008. It's a goose and it lays golden eggs.

It's almost not fair to compare anybody to a monster like that.



"The worst part about these reviews is they are [subjective]--and their scores often depend on how drunk you got the media at a Street Fighter event."  — Mona Hamilton, Capcom Senior VP of Marketing
*Image indefinitely borrowed from BrainBoxLtd without his consent.

Even if you took the whole "support wii or die" sentiment out of it, it simply doesn't bode well to put all your eggs in a small number of baskets. The companies in question should diversify if they want to make bank. Have your big$$ blockbusters, but spread them out over the year, then put a few evergreen titles in with the mix, something that you can fall back on.

 

Shovelware definitely needs to be abandoned, as it is part of the problem. What you need is Mario Kart, something that literally everyone can enjoy, and whose sales will reflect as such.

 

Concepts like LittleBigPlanet could also work in a similar vein.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Funny that the original poster should mention THQ and EA of all companies. EA which is the biggest third-party on the Wii and is blaming it for their current problems. THQ which has put significant resources into Wii games and is now losing more money than last year. Sorry folks but when it comes to third party software the Wii has serious obstacles for third-parties to overcome.  Very diverse userbase, Nintendo domination of software sales, etc.

On a side note THQ is pouring a significant amount of money into Deadly Creatures (Billy Bob Thornton and Dennis Hopper are now involved with the project). As well you'll see significant advertising. So when this game bombs (and yes I'm calling it right now, sales will be disappointing, well maybe not as far as Wii third-party games are concerned) I'll look forward to seeing what creative excuses people will come up with for the game's sales.