Very good read. I can honestly say that I agree with pretty much everything written in the OP.

This is something that has been on my mind for quite a while. Thanks a ton for bringing it up.

Well that was an enjoyable read, along with a lot of the comments here. I espeically enjoy this one from phisheep.

Judging from the comments I've seen here and at other forums, this seems spot on. A lot of people seemed disappointed in Nintendo for not actively pursuing the warrior demographic. Isn't that the biggest complaint we here about the Wii? Not enough "hardcore" games. Don’t we here that more often the motion control complaints? (Which are often lumped together with the first complaint.)

Why else would (some of) the same people still like the DS? Nintendo's strategy with the DS is practically the same as their strategy with the Wii. Refining old technology into new gaming ideas on a system with less power then its competitors. They've actively made sequels to their popular franchises while creating new types of games for an expanded audience. (Brain Age, Nintendogs) DS has tons of shovelware due to it's massive install base and low development costs. Only difference is the big name 3rd party support is stronger and more traditional games for the crowd land on the system. (Ninja Gaiden, Castlevania, Contra, now GTA)

I made a lousy gag thread about how the only deciding factor for "hardcore" gamers was cover arts, and only cover arts with guns, swords, and sometimes fast cars are hardcore enough to buy. I was half-kidding, but phallic imagery are big sellers for video games in the traditional warrior market. The HD consoles were all about catering specially to that demographic. Look at the biggest titles out now or coming up for both HD consoles.

Killzone, Gears of War, Uncharted, Mass Effect, Halo, Assassin's Creed, Metal Gear Solid, Ninja Gaiden, Fallout, Oblivion, Bioshock, Left 4 Dead, Heavenly Sword

All games with a big emphasis on shooting things, slashing at things, or both. These of course are all different games, and shooting/slashing are small parts for some of them, but their all marketed to show off guns and swords to attract the combative male crowd. There are exceptions of course, Little Big Planet being an obvious one. But the sales number reflect the bulk of this group probably aren't actually represented in gaming circles like this one. Probably also why Madden is such a massive seller, but not met with much enthusiasm in gaming centric websites.

I made a joke about Army of Two outselling Battlefield: Bad Company, but I really wasn't joking. Army of Two's cover better reflects an image the warrior demo wants to see. They were both shooters, made by EA, released about five months apart, on the same systems, with strong advertising campaigns. Battlefield: Bad Company was reviewed a good bit better then Army of Two, and has the Battlefield brand name. But Army of Two still outsold it.

 I'd love to accept your invite. Sounds great. And it also sounds like you have your life in balance.  And thats the name of the game.

And although simplifying, there are indeed young women who are very competitive minded themselves although they will generally have good social skills as well. They are often athletes and leaders. Because they will tend to share more of the interest and activities of the male population, they will be brought into contact with them more. Certainly many of them play on line, and they play well. But I've personally have never heard one spouting abusive obscenities at other players.

On an interesting note. At least among adult women. The aggressive ones in business or political leadership roles actually have on average higher testosterone levels than the general population of women. * Which isn't such a bad thing because higher testosterone levels in women are associated with increased libido (interest in sex). And I'm all for that . LOL. So if you have a girl buddy who regularly whips your ass at COD, you might want to consider asking her out -wink wink, nod, nod.

So yes, there is a very wide spectrum of both male and female patterns of behavior and they overlap to some degree. But you might say that they orbit around different suns, just as just a range of different distances that the oribits overlap each other. I'm obviously describing the suns for simplicities, not all the planets because everyone is unique and complex.

*Note. Yes both men and women have most of the same hormones. The major female and male hormones can be classified as estrogens or androgens. Both classes of male and female hormones are present in both males and females alike, but in vastly different amounts. Most men produce 6-8 mg of the male hormone testosterone (an androgen) per day, compared to most women who produce 0.5 mg daily. Female hormones, estrogens, are also present in both sexes, but in larger amounts for women.

Cool, I am a complete gamer. I enjoy my competitive games (Brawl, Mario Kart + xbox 360 games) and I love my social games like Wii Sports.

Great Thread Grampy i do agree. But i dont really see "Hardcore" gamers being (genetically) those warriors that were supposed to protect the rest of society (that would be funny).

Warriors in medieval (societes) were a very social group that were rather proud of interacting with others( just look at knights etc. etc.).

Well ill stick to medieval times, and for me the some of the "hardcore" resemble medieval clergy: Close minded, loud, not knowing the word compromise, dividing people into those who are "right" or "wrong", labeling everything, and isolated from the rest of society.

The issue of people whose lives are out of balance is not a new one and philosphers through the ages have urged moderation:

Be moderate in order to taste the joys of life in abundance. ~Epicurus


They are sick that surfeit with too much, as they that starve with nothing. ~William Shakespeare


To go beyond is as wrong as to fall short. ~Confucius, Analects


Everything in moderation, including moderation. ~Author Unknown

No matter what happens... somebody will find a way to take it too seriously. ~Dave Barry, "Things That It Took Me 50 Years to Learn"

Makes some sense but some are hardcore in the sense that they spend 400 hours on FFXII to get all final weapons and unlock everything or do every quest in Oblivion and things like that. Whats the competition there?

Apparently you've never met the ioi clan on the Killzone 2 beta? 

j/k. I understand most clans are  very hardcore, but I use online games to help keep touch with friends across the US. It's more enjoyable than a phone call and we can both do something we enjoy, together.

That is how it's meant to be, I think. The fun is often spoiled by indivduals who just take the game and themselves far to seriously. Even though I am well out of that particular demographic group because I old, very old. Bit I'n not immune. I'm not aparticularly competitve person but I tend to be very passionate about the things I do.

For years I've worn this Seiko Mickey Mouse  watch. People ask me why. The answer is that I wear it to remind me not to take myself too seriously.

Hey I play and own all 3, so I guess I'm hardcore? I think the definition is off, I mean, I think you can just play Wii and be as hardcore as anyone else really. My dad is a good example.. he plays 3-5 hours a week on the 360, and then sometimes not at all. He likes gaming but even doesn't get to for a month, he really doesn't care... so I see him as casual.   So is hardcore the level of obsession?