No it's more than that... it complete emmersion into a character because it literally begins to feel like you are in the game.  Kind of like when I play Forza 2.  I have the rumble steering wheel and a 65" Sony Bravia, and 7:1 Yamaha surround sound.  I literally feel like I'm driving the car.. the tracks look real, the crashes look & feel real.  Hardcode gaming is an experience for me.  That's why for me, even though I enjoy my Wii, it's just "casual".  The games are cartoonish (which can be fun sometimes too of course).

I love HD and surround sound.  I am the definintion of an audio/videophile.  And Wii in this generation isn't that for me.  It's my party favor and system to fall back on when I am not in the mood for "hardcore".

I personaly don't discuss the Wii too much for 2 reasons.

1. The Wii doesn't interest me too much.
2.The Wii is so far ahead of the competition it's no use arguing in favour or against it.

@Comrade: So there were no 'hardcore' consoles out before this gen? Because they couldn't offer you the graphics and sound like the PS360 can? That's seems like a very narrow definition.

OT: If the person is talking about first place as if the Wii doesn't exist, then yes, it should be brought up. What's wrong with a friendly reminder?

I totally agree with the sentiments of the OP, Perhaps there are people out there who aren't interested in the Wii, perhaps are only interested in the gaming type provided by the 360 and the PS3. Perhaps these people don't give a monkey's what the Wii is up to? or maybe they do, but see it as complimentary to the two HD consoles.

It's a pain in the backside to see a good old HD console war debate get hijacked by the "BUT THE WEE IS WAY BETTER! SEE LOOK! EVERYONE LIKES THE WEE! PS60 LOSE!"

how about a great big GET OVER IT!

i don't deny it. everyone wants a Wii, my mum wants a Wii, my girlfriend wants a Wii, my boss wants a Wii, but frankly, i don't care, and i'm sure i'm not the only HD console fan who likes talking about HD consoles without bringing the Wii into it.

So how about you take your WIIIIIIIII Wins comments and stick em (on the relevant Ninty discussion board)? hmm..?

^^ ^^

Or on the gaming discussion board? Nintendo is still involved in gaming. Right?

^???

BoleroOfFire said: @Comrade: So there were no 'hardcore' consoles out before this gen? Because they couldn't offer you the graphics and sound like the PS360 can? That's seems like a very narrow definition. OT: If the person is talking about first place as if the Wii doesn't exist, then yes, it should be brought up. What's wrong with a friendly reminder?

Actually, allow me to explain.

When I was a kid, I was an early adopter of both the Atari 2600 and the Mattel Intellivision.  For that generation, the Intellivision was as real as it got.  The intellivision games had crude voice, and the visuals were far better than anything during that time or prior to that time.  B-17 Bomber made you feel like you were "in the game".  It was an awesome experience back then on my 27" COLOR TV!!  I was the coolest little kid on the block.

Then the next gen, I got the NES & Sega MS.  The Master System did it for me!  Wow, I only thought I knew great graphics on the Intellivision until I put on my 3D glasses in Space Harrier 3D on a 35" Sony CRTV... now that was as real as it got!

After that, the "in game experience" died for me until the PS2 & Original XBOX were released... I couldn't believe it!  480p graphics on my Mitsubishi 45" big screen TV with 5:1 surround sound.  The realism of SOCOM & Halo were just more than I could bare.

And then, drum roll please.... I got an XBOX 360 and PS3... 1080p graphics and 7:1 surround sound on my Yamaha system & 65" Sony Bravia!  Rumble controllers, stearing wheels with real-time feedback.  That's the "hardcore" experience for me.  I only thought I knew "hardcore" prior to that.

2018, virtual gaming machines.  You literally see, taste, smell, and feel your surrounding in a virtual world.  XBOX 360?  What the hell is that?

My point is, each generation surpasses the last for realism and that virtual gaming experience.  And someday, we'll look back on these 3 consoles and laugh at their inferior technology just like our kids laugh at us for emmersing ourselves in the Atari 2600 back in 1982.  Our grandkids will laugh at our Wii, PS3, and 360 someday as well.

You didn't understand the discussion.  But, I'm glad to see that this didn't get in your way -- you obviously have some anger you need to release.

OT: How about PS3 and 360 owners agree that they won't argue who's going to "win the generation" between their consoles because, obviously, that deserves someone bringing up the fact that the only possible answer is "neither."  Instead, how about PS3 and 360 owners argue about who's going to lose the generation?  That way, the Wii will never be brought up.

@ Rol. A refrigerator? I've heard of it refered to as a toy before but that's a new one on me. That dragon cat guy had an entire thread on it.

Well that doesn't help because Wii can still lose because it is going to stop selling when Halo 3  GTA4   MGS4   LBP   Killzone 2 gets released.