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Sqrl said:Wow, I feel almost exactly the opposite.  I think the Wiimote paves the way for new exciting gameplay that was never possible before and I think this is exactly why the Wii is a success. As far as a downgrade from the GC, I don't even think thats possible to say honestly.  The fact that it can play all GC games and you can use the GC controllers for new games makes me think that if developers really thought the Wii-Mote was a limitation they would provide alternatives (and in the case of SSBB they did).

 

I just don't see it. Outside of mini-games, what exactly does the Wii-mote improve? How does it improve Action-adventure games, Platformers, RPG's, ect? I have yet to see it even from 1st party games.

 



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Good post, and Galaki not everyone who doesn't like the Wii is in denial of it's success. There are some people out there who simply have genuinely different tastes, and there is nothing wrong with that. I agree with both the OP and Sqrl. I agree that the Wii has stopped the industry from becoming stagnant, but also that it didn't have to be the Wii. Nintendo just made the right move at the right time.



grandmaster192 said:
Sqrl said:Wow, I feel almost exactly the opposite. I think the Wiimote paves the way for new exciting gameplay that was never possible before and I think this is exactly why the Wii is a success. As far as a downgrade from the GC, I don't even think thats possible to say honestly. The fact that it can play all GC games and you can use the GC controllers for new games makes me think that if developers really thought the Wii-Mote was a limitation they would provide alternatives (and in the case of SSBB they did).

 

I just don't see it. Outside of mini-games, what exactly does the Wii-mote improve? How does it improve Action-adventure games, Platformers, RPG's, ect? I have yet to see it even from 1st party games.

 


That depends on what you call minigames. Bowling and Golf are a hell of a lot better and I personally think that they are not minigames, especially golf. As for the other genres, there are a lot of people who absolutely love Godfather on the Wii but hate it on most/all other consoles. And by all accounts from reviewers MP3 has phenomenal controls made possible by the combo, and similar things have been said about SMG. I personally love Madden because it makes me feel a lot more like I am playing football than any PS2 version ever did, its not excercise or anything but when I whip the remote I get a bullet pass and I make a lofting arch when I want to put some air under the ball. 

Does every title make great use of the controller? Not by a long shot. 

Does that mean it isn't a lot of fun when it is used properly? Of course not. 

You are by all means entitled to your opinion, but I have seen so much potential from the games I own and have played so far and I see so much more potential in the very near future that I am confident that when I decided to get a Wii over a PS3 or 360 I made the right choice. 



To Each Man, Responsibility
grandmaster192 said:
Sqrl said:Wow, I feel almost exactly the opposite. I think the Wiimote paves the way for new exciting gameplay that was never possible before and I think this is exactly why the Wii is a success. As far as a downgrade from the GC, I don't even think thats possible to say honestly. The fact that it can play all GC games and you can use the GC controllers for new games makes me think that if developers really thought the Wii-Mote was a limitation they would provide alternatives (and in the case of SSBB they did).

 

I just don't see it. Outside of mini-games, what exactly does the Wii-mote improve? How does it improve Action-adventure games, Platformers, RPG's, ect? I have yet to see it even from 1st party games.

 


Well, let me go through them individually with current examples available.

Action Adventure:  Twilight Princess was a great example of the new control scheme being put to work in action adventure.  Aiming the bow with the wiimote, slashing the sword with it, using the nunchuck to shield bash with a mimicked motion.  Honestly the controls were near perfect.  When I go back to play the old 3D Zeldas the controls feel clunky.  Or look at games like No More Heroes where you use the Wiimote to slash the beam katana (light saber).

Sports:  Kind of self-explanatory, but Wii Sports and Madden show these clearly. 

Platforming:  I'm guessing you didn't check out the Mario Galaxy video, but the motion controls looked fun and intuitive.  Of course we can't really judge a game that's yet to be released, so let's just wait and see.

Shooters:  Same deal with Galaxy.  The controls look great in MP3 with everything we have seen so far (and were certainly incredible in RE4, though that is a very unique game), but it's too early to judge since the game isn't out yet.

RPGs:  There are none out except Super Paper Mario, which didn't really use them (because it was a Gamecube game released on the Wii instead).  Again, it's something that we would have to wait and see for.  To be honest I think the RPG genre is the one least likely to be changed by motion controls.

Racing: Like sports, it's self-explanatory.

Fighting: I know this is kind of a niche example, but Dragonball Z Budokai Tenkaichi 2 made great use of motion controls.  I say this is a niche example because they were used to mimic the extravagant gestures the DBZ characters make.  It also uses an over-the-shoulder camera angle.  You won't see this in most fighters, so it's not really an example that will apply to many fighters.  SSBB gives multiple control options, so it obviously won't be necessary in that game either.  I could see the fighting genre remain relatively unchanged.

Mini-games:  Self-explanatory.

RTS games:  This one isn't mentioned much, but the Wiimote could be the solution to the problem of clunky RTS games on consoles.  Nothing out to prove it though, so it's a wait and see.

Sim Games:  Here is where you get some more depth in it.  Take Harvest Moon for example:  using the wiimote gestures to move and manipulate your tools.  That really adds a lot to the experience of a sim game.

 

I think you just need to be a little more creative and open minded to see what kinds of effects the Wiimote could have on the industry in the long run.  It's not going to change every single thing in gaming.  I don't think anyone is going to tell you that.  There are still many classic style games on the Wii.  It is however adding a fresh new way to play things, and bringing a lot of new gamers and lapsed gamers (who dropped out of the industry due to lack of change) into gaming.  It certainly isn't the doom of the classic game style.



The wii does not use true motion contols as some would like to think, it judges if you are moving the contoller in a side to side motion or up and down, or if you move it fast, the same thing is true for the sixaxis, it has tilt and the buttons tell how hard you are pressing them, they even had pressure sensitive buttons on the dualshock controller.

If the wii2 can have true motion sensing controls then that would be different, but that would need lots of sensors or a camera.  The PSeye had motion controls, i could truly move and see it on screen, the wii just makes you think it has true motion controls.

The wii is nothing truly amazing for this generation, if it never came out the PS2 would still be selling, the market would not fade away with the Playstation 3 or the xbox 360.

The wii is lots of fun, don't get me wrong with what i said above, i play it all the time with my sisters kids. It's a great system, but don't try to take it for more then what it is, it's just another console from Nintendo.



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Galaki said:
2 months ago. someone would have already response with the "gimmick controls".
It looks like the denial stage is over and now comes the acceptance stage?

According to the Kübler-Ross model, there are actually five stage:

Denial: The "Nintendo can't be dominating!" stage
This stage is filled with disbelief and denial. You think Nintendo must be wrong, that there is no way the Wii remote and motion sensing will take off and revolutionize the world of gaming, especially if its going to affect your gaming preferences for life. Nintendo will just mess everything up and fade into obscurity.

Anger: The "Why/How the #$%@ is/can be Nintendo dominating?" stage
Anger at the situation, perhaps anger at Nintendo who you perceive the enemy for introducing something that you don't want. Anger at Nintendo and the Wii for their audacity in labelliing you as a "casual gamer", a "non-hardcore". Anger that it is you who has been affected, when it should have affected Nintendo fans only.

Bargaining: The "Everything will be better if" stage
You try to negotiate with yourself to change the situation. If you think it was triggered by Nintendo, for example, you swear that they are targeting another target demographic, and it won't ever affect you, if you just don't have to be forced to play any of their games. You bargain that you will give up bad habits in exchange for mental wellness "I stop bashing and criticizing the Wii, if only the Nintendo domination stops.

Depression: The "Gaming just sucks with Nintendo dominating, why should I care anymore" stage
You realize the situation isn’t going to change. Nintendo continues to dominate. Perhaps you stopped talking trash about the Wii, only to discover that it set new sales records. It finally begins to set in, and you ponder what this Wii domination is going to do to gaming culture as you had known and accepted it. This is a stage of preparedness fo acceptance, and finally one day it is reached...

Acceptance: The "It's going to be OK, I am ready for/despite the Nintendo domination!" stage
At this stage you accept that Nintendo is dominating, and that you will have to suck it up like every other Nintendo-hater. Perhaps now you will seek support from other console owners. You play both on your hardcore console of choice - and the Wii - realizing you need both to play all kinds of games and be a healthy, sane gamer.

This is scientifically proven to be the fact, and I can grab any number of sources straight from my ass to those interested.



Warlord_ said:
The wii does not use true motion contols as some would like to think, it judges if you are moving the contoller in a side to side motion or up and down, or if you move it fast, the same thing is true for the sixaxis, it has tilt and the buttons tell how hard you are pressing them, they even had pressure sensitive buttons on the dualshock controller.

If the wii2 can have true motion sensing controls then that would be different, but that would need lots of sensors or a camera. The PSeye had motion controls, i could truly move and see it on screen, the wii just makes you think it has true motion controls.

The wii is nothing truly amazing for this generation, if it never came out the PS2 would still be selling, the market would not fade away with the Playstation 3 or the xbox 360.

The wii is lots of fun, don't get me wrong with what i said above, i play it all the time with my sisters kids. It's a great system, but don't try to take it for more then what it is, it's just another console from Nintendo.

 Nintendo never billed them as anything other than accelerometers ...aka a device that senses motion.  I hear what you are saying but I mean its sort of nitpicky imo. So while, yes its not true motion capture, it is motion sensing and thus "motion controlled".  Whether I am being tricked into thinking it or not is irrelevent to me since I am already being asked to suspend reality and use my imagination in order to play the game.

 



To Each Man, Responsibility
your mother said:
Galaki said:
2 months ago. someone would have already response with the "gimmick controls".
It looks like the denial stage is over and now comes the acceptance stage?

According to the Kübler-Ross model, there are actually five stage:

Denial: The "Nintendo can't be dominating!" stage
This stage is filled with disbelief and denial. You think Nintendo must be wrong, that there is no way the Wii remote and motion sensing will take off and revolutionize the world of gaming, especially if its going to affect your gaming preferences for life. Nintendo will just mess everything up and fade into obscurity.

Anger: The "Why/How the #$%@ is/can be Nintendo dominating?" stage
Anger at the situation, perhaps anger at Nintendo who you perceive the enemy for introducing something that you don't want. Anger at Nintendo and the Wii for their audacity in labelliing you as a "casual gamer", a "non-hardcore". Anger that it is you who has been affected, when it should have affected Nintendo fans only.

Bargaining: The "Everything will be better if" stage
You try to negotiate with yourself to change the situation. If you think it was triggered by Nintendo, for example, you swear that they are targeting another target demographic, and it won't ever affect you, if you just don't have to be forced to play any of their games. You bargain that you will give up bad habits in exchange for mental wellness "I stop bashing and criticizing the Wii, if only the Nintendo domination stops.

Depression: The "Gaming just sucks with Nintendo dominating, why should I care anymore" stage
You realize the situation isn’t going to change. Nintendo continues to dominate. Perhaps you stopped talking trash about the Wii, only to discover that it set new sales records. It finally begins to set in, and you ponder what this Wii domination is going to do to gaming culture as you had known and accepted it. This is a stage of preparedness fo acceptance, and finally one day it is reached...

Acceptance: The "It's going to be OK, I am ready for/despite the Nintendo domination!" stage
At this stage you accept that Nintendo is dominating, and that you will have to suck it up like every other Nintendo-hater. Perhaps now you will seek support from other console owners. You play both on your hardcore console of choice - and the Wii - realizing you need both to play all kinds of games and be a healthy, sane gamer.

This is scientifically proven to be the fact, and I can grab any number of sources straight from my ass to those interested.

 

love that part at the end, but you can leave all of those sources right where you keep them thank you very much.

 



To Each Man, Responsibility
Warlord_ said:
The wii does not use true motion contols as some would like to think, it judges if you are moving the contoller in a side to side motion or up and down, or if you move it fast, the same thing is true for the sixaxis, it has tilt and the buttons tell how hard you are pressing them, they even had pressure sensitive buttons on the dualshock controller.

If the wii2 can have true motion sensing controls then that would be different, but that would need lots of sensors or a camera. The PSeye had motion controls, i could truly move and see it on screen, the wii just makes you think it has true motion controls.

The wii is nothing truly amazing for this generation, if it never came out the PS2 would still be selling, the market would not fade away with the Playstation 3 or the xbox 360.

The wii is lots of fun, don't get me wrong with what i said above, i play it all the time with my sisters kids. It's a great system, but don't try to take it for more then what it is, it's just another console from Nintendo.



You seem to be misinformed about the capabilities of the Wiimote.

The Wiimote has an accelerometer which can sense precise acceleration along 3 axes. The Wiimote calculates the distance from it to the TV thanks to the sensor bar. It also detects the tilt and rotation of the Wiimote with respect to the sensor bar, allowing for it to sense something like the wind up for a pitch in baseball, or the pulling back of your arm for a punch (ala Godfather, which was brilliantly done I might add). It also has the ability to sense the tilt and angle of the Wiimote to the ground.

To summarize: The wiimote can detect tilt, angle, position, distance, and acceleration. This has not been fully explored yet, but theoretically the Wiimote is capable of a lot more than has been shown to date. Here's hoping Lucas Arts shows us this for the first time with a lightsaber game.

Also to add, rumble and the Wiimote speaker are really nice features.

 

Edit: I love the "my mom plays it" or "my children play it" methods of attacking the Wii. It's a very entertaining way to demean it. I think it's especially entertaining coming from a PS3 owner, when clearly based on game sales alone there are more core gamers with Wiis than PS3s. Core gamer doesn't have to be the only part of the Wii's userbase for it to be the dominant part or even a major part. It's like when PSP owners were bragging a while back about that press release that showed that 60% of PSP owners were over 16 but only 40% of DS owners were... even though 40% of DS owners is signifficantly larger than 60% of PSP owners. All it really is showing is that the system appeals to a much wider demographic including your own signifficantly better than it's competitors.



@Naz,

It can't do height but the rest you have correct. It does know which direction is down however as gravity applies constant acceleration on the wii-mote.



To Each Man, Responsibility