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Forums - PC Discussion - VALVe and DRM

Gabe Newell Says DRM Strategies 'Are Just Dumb'

Valve president thinks developers should focus more on "service value."

By Kris Pigna, 12/02/2008


Evidently not content being the champion of free downlodable content, Valve president Gabe Newell has now gone on record as a critic of stringent digital rights management too. Responding to a letter that was posted, of all places, on the "ih8evilstuff" LiveJournal page (via GamePolitics), Newell said that DRM strategies "are just dumb" because they only decrease the value of a game in the consumer's eyes.

The letter expressed concern about Valve's publishing partnership with Electronic Arts, as the writer vowed to boycott all EA games due to their use of the SecuROM DRM software in PC games. In a short response, Newell wrote, "As far as DRM goes, most DRM strategies are just dumb. The goal should be to create greater value for customers through service value (make it easy for me to play my games whenever and wherever I want to), not by decreasing the value of a product (maybe I'll be able to play my game and maybe I won't)." He added that Valve "really, really [discourages] other developers and publishers from using the broken DRM offerings, and in general there is a groundswell to abandon those approaches."

Despite that groundswell, the fact is DRM seems to only be getting more ubiquitous in the piracy-plagued PC market. The debate over the use of DRM peaked with the release of Spore, which was condemned by some gamers for its strict use of the SecuROM software (which only allowed three installations before you had to call EA customer service to be authorized for more). Still, EA's PC games continue to use the software (albeit a slightly less stringent version), and other developers are using the software as well, with Rockstar being the latest to employ SecuROM in the PC version of Grand Theft Auto 4.

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I really really like this guy, I think he's onto something here. I wouldn't worry about EA and Valve either, if it came to it Valve would drop them like they're hot.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

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Um, Steam counts as DRM. It's pretty restrictive too compared to most. DRM is anything that prevents customers from using their purchases when and where they want to, and Steam certainly achieves that.



Soleron said:
Um, Steam counts as DRM. It's pretty restrictive too compared to most. DRM is anything that prevents customers from using their purchases when and where they want to, and Steam certainly achieves that.

 

Not really, I can download steam on any computer and boot my games, it also doesn't fuck with my computer.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

I agree with Soleron, Steam is just as bad as DRM. I bought Portal, but can only play it on my own Computer. Tried to install it on my girlfriend's computer, but didn't work.



vlad321 said:
Soleron said:
Um, Steam counts as DRM. It's pretty restrictive too compared to most. DRM is anything that prevents customers from using their purchases when and where they want to, and Steam certainly achieves that.

 

Not really, I can download steam on any computer and boot my games, it also doesn't fuck with my computer.

You can't copy games; you can't cheat on one of them without Valve deleting all of your purchases; you can't install it on more than one computer at a time; you can't run it without their process spying on you; it collects your data without your consent; you can't run games from a different region; you can't run games at all if your computer doesn't meet Valve's minimum computer requirements; you can't resell your games freely.

 



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Soleron said:
vlad321 said:
Soleron said:
Um, Steam counts as DRM. It's pretty restrictive too compared to most. DRM is anything that prevents customers from using their purchases when and where they want to, and Steam certainly achieves that.

 

Not really, I can download steam on any computer and boot my games, it also doesn't fuck with my computer.

You can't copy games; you can't cheat on one of them without Valve deleting all of your purchases; you can't install it on more than one computer at a time; you can't run it without their process spying on you; it collects your data without your consent; you can't run games from a different region; you can't run games at all if your computer doesn't meet Valve's minimum computer requirements; you can't resell your games freely.

 

Why would you want to copy games other than for backups, which you don't need? Why would you cheat in a VAC secured server, do it in single-player or in non VAC servers? You consent to the data gathered when you accept the ToS, if you read it. If you can't meet Valve's min requirements then you REALLY can't run the games they make, they are extremely lax as they are. Again, the point is for you not to copy and resell games, reselling is equivalent of pirating except that it's legal. I haven't heard of out of region playing to be honest so I don't know how big of a problem that is.

 



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

vlad321 said:
Soleron said:
vlad321 said:
Soleron said:
Um, Steam counts as DRM. It's pretty restrictive too compared to most. DRM is anything that prevents customers from using their purchases when and where they want to, and Steam certainly achieves that.

 

Not really, I can download steam on any computer and boot my games, it also doesn't fuck with my computer.

You can't copy games; you can't cheat on one of them without Valve deleting all of your purchases; you can't install it on more than one computer at a time; you can't run it without their process spying on you; it collects your data without your consent; you can't run games from a different region; you can't run games at all if your computer doesn't meet Valve's minimum computer requirements; you can't resell your games freely.

 

Why would you want to copy games other than for backups, which you don't need? Why would you cheat in a VAC secured server, do it in single-player or in non VAC servers? You consent to the data gathered when you accept the ToS, if you read it. If you can't meet Valve's min requirements then you REALLY can't run the games they make, they are extremely lax as they are. Again, the point is for you not to copy and resell games, reselling is equivalent of pirating except that it's legal. I haven't heard of out of region playing to be honest so I don't know how big of a problem that is.

 

So, with your logic, selling used cars is equivalent to stealing cars except that it's legal. So it should be illegal to sell used cars.

 



Untamoi said:
vlad321 said:
Soleron said:
vlad321 said:
Soleron said:
Um, Steam counts as DRM. It's pretty restrictive too compared to most. DRM is anything that prevents customers from using their purchases when and where they want to, and Steam certainly achieves that.

 

Not really, I can download steam on any computer and boot my games, it also doesn't fuck with my computer.

You can't copy games; you can't cheat on one of them without Valve deleting all of your purchases; you can't install it on more than one computer at a time; you can't run it without their process spying on you; it collects your data without your consent; you can't run games from a different region; you can't run games at all if your computer doesn't meet Valve's minimum computer requirements; you can't resell your games freely.

 

Why would you want to copy games other than for backups, which you don't need? Why would you cheat in a VAC secured server, do it in single-player or in non VAC servers? You consent to the data gathered when you accept the ToS, if you read it. If you can't meet Valve's min requirements then you REALLY can't run the games they make, they are extremely lax as they are. Again, the point is for you not to copy and resell games, reselling is equivalent of pirating except that it's legal. I haven't heard of out of region playing to be honest so I don't know how big of a problem that is.

 

So, with your logic, selling used cars is equivalent to stealing cars except that it's legal. So it should be illegal to sell used cars.

 

 

Your problem is comparing software to physical goods, that comparison just can't be done.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

vlad321 said:
...

Why would you want to copy games other than for backups, which you don't need? Why would you cheat in a VAC secured server, do it in single-player or in non VAC servers? You consent to the data gathered when you accept the ToS, if you read it. If you can't meet Valve's min requirements then you REALLY can't run the games they make, they are extremely lax as they are. Again, the point is for you not to copy and resell games, reselling is equivalent of pirating except that it's legal. I haven't heard of out of region playing to be honest so I don't know how big of a problem that is.

 

Some of which are valid points. But DRM is anything that restricts freedom to use the purchase within the law, no matter how well-intentioned it is or how much you personally can't see the problem. It's still a contradictory position to criticise EA and DRM in general while having a platform that relies on it.

Now, as to what level of DRM is "acceptable", we can debate forever. I can see why Steam isn't a problem to most people, including you or me; that doesn't stop me from being against it in principle.

 



Chrizum said:
I agree with Soleron, Steam is just as bad as DRM. I bought Portal, but can only play it on my own Computer. Tried to install it on my girlfriend's computer, but didn't work.

Steam is DRM. The point is that it's an acceptable form of it, as it's not all one way- you get auto-patching, tons of community content, free servers, dedicated forums etc etc and you still have the ability to download and play your games on as many computers as you want (just not concurrently). The restrictions are you can't resell your games and you need an internet connection. That's fair enough to me and millions of other people.

In contrast EA's implementation of DRM is horrendous- there are no advantages to it whatsoever, only restrictions. To be fair, there is one good thing about it: it's saved me a packet this year as I've refused to buy half a dozen games using it.