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Forums - Sales Discussion - The Math of Undertracking

amirnetz said:
DKII said:
So because a US company said that a single SKU of the 360 *might* see shortages, you take that to mean there is less inventory than normal in Europe?

Keep in mind these shipped numbers you're quoting are also including units in transit, so it's a couple weeks behind.

Units in transit are of course a regular part of the channel inventory. Nothing new about it and the ships are sailing at the same speed all year around. There were unit in transit before and there are units in transit now. So nothing is really changing here.

I am not proposing that "there is less inventory than normal in Europe". It is VGC that is claiming an unreasonable amout of inventory in the channel. 2M units in the channel at mid November is just an aweful lot. Way too much. 

 

a few things to note.

1) Microsoft is known to really stuff the channel in Q4, and to ship near nothing in Q1 (check financials) just to make it look good for them (remember 10m shipped first wins)

2) Last years sales

VGChartz Hardware data for the period 24th Nov 2007 to 05th Jan 2008:

Console X360
Total
2,783,488

and with the X360 so far doing slightly above last year, we can conclude that the 2m stock isn't even enough to last 1 month. Having barely enough stock to cover the holiday season is unreasonable. Also, tell that having tons of X360 is bad to the retail stores. The bestbuy near me usually has only 10 units out on the shelves, yet when I went last thursday they probably had 100, with units litering the floor and shelves.

If VGChartz is overtracking Europe, then they must be undertracking somewhere else.




If you drop a PS3 right on top of a Wii, it would definitely defeat it. Not so sure about the Xbox360. - mancandy
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PR statements can still be manipulative and deceiving. The whole shipped/sold distinction is proof of that. There are all kinds of PR tricks that can maintain legality, while at the same time be completely misleading.

Financial reports on the other hand can't use those PR tricks unless they want to get in legal trouble.



I would just like to point out that my Bestbuy looks like this

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=343219

and normally it NEVER looks like this. You can't convince me that retailers around the world have doubled, tripled, or even quadrupled their normal stock levels.




If you drop a PS3 right on top of a Wii, it would definitely defeat it. Not so sure about the Xbox360. - mancandy
In the past we played games. In the future we watch games. - Forest-Spirit
11/03/09 Desposit: Mod Bribery (RolStoppable)  vg$ 500.00
06/03/09 Purchase: Moderator Privilege  vg$ -50,000.00

Nordlead Jr. Photo/Video Gallery!!! (Video Added 4/19/10)

nordlead said:

a few things to note.

1) Microsoft is known to really stuff the channel in Q4, and to ship near nothing in Q1 (check financials) just to make it look good for them (remember 10m shipped first wins)

2) Last years sales

VGChartz Hardware data for the period 24th Nov 2007 to 05th Jan 2008:

Console X360
Total
2,783,488

and with the X360 so far doing slightly above last year, we can conclude that the 2m stock isn't even enough to last 1 month. Having barely enough stock to cover the holiday season is unreasonable. Also, tell that having tons of X360 is bad to the retail stores. The bestbuy near me usually has only 10 units out on the shelves, yet when I went last thursday they probably had 100, with units litering the floor and shelves.

If VGChartz is overtracking Europe, then they must be undertracking somewhere else.

Microsoft overstocked the channel in their first Q4. Indeed there were lots of leftovers in the channel in Winter 2007.

Last year they actually were far too careful and understocked the channel and there was a real shortage of 360s. Several public statements and observations were made to that effect.

They have 6 more weeks to deliver additional units to the channel. There is no good reason for them (or for the retailers) to have 70% of the holdiay turnover already on the shelves. You know, trucks are moving through December as well.

(I will ignore your anecdote. You can prove anything with them)



Prediction made on 11/1/2008:

Q4 2008: 27M xbox LTD, 20M PS3 LTD . 2009 sales: 11M xbox,  9M PS3

nordlead said:
I would just like to point out that my Bestbuy looks like this

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=343219

and normally it NEVER looks like this. You can't convince me that retailers around the world have doubled, tripled, or even quadrupled their normal stock levels.

I was gonna call you a traitor for posting a gaf link but once I saw the pics the first thought that came in my mind was..."this is beautiful..." Thank you for sharing that link.

 




-=Dew the disco dancing fo da Unco Graham=-

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ioi said:

Lol, you do realise this is my site, right?

Trust me, any disparity in shipments / sales is due to Microsoft producing and shipping a load of units in the buildup to the holidays - we do study these things

Also, whilst 450k may be the entire October sales in others if you look on the front page you see it sold 230k last week so it is more like 2 weeks sales at the moment, which really isn't a lot.

 

what do you mean it's 2 weeks of sales boss?



FishyJoe said:
PR statements can still be manipulative and deceiving. The whole shipped/sold distinction is proof of that. There are all kinds of PR tricks that can maintain legality, while at the same time be completely misleading.

Financial reports on the other hand can't use those PR tricks unless they want to get in legal trouble.

You can use PR statements for many purposes. But when it comes to making PR statements regarding your business performance you need to be very accurate with what you say. You can cherry pick the facts you like. You can use any language you choose. You must say the truth, but you don't have to tell the whole truth. In any case. you cannot tell lies.

 



Prediction made on 11/1/2008:

Q4 2008: 27M xbox LTD, 20M PS3 LTD . 2009 sales: 11M xbox,  9M PS3

amirnetz said:
nordlead said:

a few things to note.

1) Microsoft is known to really stuff the channel in Q4, and to ship near nothing in Q1 (check financials) just to make it look good for them (remember 10m shipped first wins)

2) Last years sales

VGChartz Hardware data for the period 24th Nov 2007 to 05th Jan 2008:

Console X360
Total
2,783,488

and with the X360 so far doing slightly above last year, we can conclude that the 2m stock isn't even enough to last 1 month. Having barely enough stock to cover the holiday season is unreasonable. Also, tell that having tons of X360 is bad to the retail stores. The bestbuy near me usually has only 10 units out on the shelves, yet when I went last thursday they probably had 100, with units litering the floor and shelves.

If VGChartz is overtracking Europe, then they must be undertracking somewhere else.

Microsoft overstocked the channel in their first Q4. Indeed there were lots of leftovers in the channel in Winter 2007.

Last year they actually were far too careful and understocked the channel and there was a real shortage of 360s. Several public statements and observations were made to that effect.

They have 6 more weeks to deliver additional units to the channel. There is no good reason for them (or for the retailers) to have 70% of the holdiay turnover already on the shelves. You know, trucks are moving through December as well.

(I will ignore your anecdote. You can prove anything with them)

but they don't have 6 weeks to deliver more goods, they only have 5 days for one of the biggest weeks in the year in NA. And they only have 4 weeks between now and the biggest week fo the year WW. After Christmas, sales continue for 1 week, then typically drop right off.

Also, as a retailer you lose a sale (and sales of the game and extra stuff) if you don't have the console on the shelf the minute the customer walks in the store.

@bugrimmar

when ioi says they have 2 weeks of sales, it means there is enough stock in the channel for retailers to continue to sell the product for 2 weeks. If more stock isn't inserted into the channel before then, then everyone will run out of units.




If you drop a PS3 right on top of a Wii, it would definitely defeat it. Not so sure about the Xbox360. - mancandy
In the past we played games. In the future we watch games. - Forest-Spirit
11/03/09 Desposit: Mod Bribery (RolStoppable)  vg$ 500.00
06/03/09 Purchase: Moderator Privilege  vg$ -50,000.00

Nordlead Jr. Photo/Video Gallery!!! (Video Added 4/19/10)

Grahamhsu said:
nordlead said:
I would just like to point out that my Bestbuy looks like this

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=343219

and normally it NEVER looks like this. You can't convince me that retailers around the world have doubled, tripled, or even quadrupled their normal stock levels.

I was gonna call you a traitor for posting a gaf link but once I saw the pics the first thought that came in my mind was..."this is beautiful..." Thank you for sharing that link.

 

 

someone else posted it on this site. I just posted the original source since it had all the pictures.




If you drop a PS3 right on top of a Wii, it would definitely defeat it. Not so sure about the Xbox360. - mancandy
In the past we played games. In the future we watch games. - Forest-Spirit
11/03/09 Desposit: Mod Bribery (RolStoppable)  vg$ 500.00
06/03/09 Purchase: Moderator Privilege  vg$ -50,000.00

Nordlead Jr. Photo/Video Gallery!!! (Video Added 4/19/10)

oh, I would also like to point out, that this entire argument is based on how you "feel" which isn't a very sound argument at all.

at least ioi does get some stock information from retailers.




If you drop a PS3 right on top of a Wii, it would definitely defeat it. Not so sure about the Xbox360. - mancandy
In the past we played games. In the future we watch games. - Forest-Spirit
11/03/09 Desposit: Mod Bribery (RolStoppable)  vg$ 500.00
06/03/09 Purchase: Moderator Privilege  vg$ -50,000.00

Nordlead Jr. Photo/Video Gallery!!! (Video Added 4/19/10)