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Forums - Sales Discussion - The Math of Undertracking

deathgod33 said:
i dont understand for what reason 360 sold that much. black friday isnt here yet, and where well away from christmas.

While I will not pretend to be a mass psychologist, I would venture the following explanation:

First, they hit the magical price point of $199. This is the "cheap enough" price point. The "impulse buy" point. $199 seems twice as cheap as $210. Crazy but true.

Second, the holiday season is full with casual buyers that are looking for a good, low risk bargin. They heard of the xbox and they see it is very cheap (see point 1) so they just buy it. They don't run spec comparisons. They don't care about BR. They are just out for a good safe bargin. Microsoft gives them exactly that.



Prediction made on 11/1/2008:

Q4 2008: 27M xbox LTD, 20M PS3 LTD . 2009 sales: 11M xbox,  9M PS3

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dolemit3 said:
The Math of Undertracking

2 + 2 = 3

 

 win



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ioi said:

Lol, you do realise this is my site, right?

Trust me, any disparity in shipments / sales is due to Microsoft producing and shipping a load of units in the buildup to the holidays - we do study these things

Also, whilst 450k may be the entire October sales in others if you look on the front page you see it sold 230k last week so it is more like 2 weeks sales at the moment, which really isn't a lot.

Your site - yes. But I hope you are willing to stand up to scrutany. I am a numbers junkie and will call it out whenever things don't add up for me.

Also, let's not confuse Europe with "Others". When Microsoft talks about Europe, they mean only ~75% of the VGC "Others" market.

Let's look at the whole picture. Right now you are assuming 2M units in the channel already. (25M shipped per Microsoft public statements, 23M sold per VGC). This is a bit too much. 2M units stocked in the channel so early is a bad use of storage space and capital at the retailers level and also a bad risk.

Also, independent statements from the retailers suggested a shortage of 360 in the making (see the GameStop CEO statements), casting doubt on the assessment of such a huge inventory in the channel.

So all together I believe the actual channel stoking numbers are about 500K lower than your own channel inventory assessment. That said, overall, you are really pretty close 23M is probably just 2% undertracking under for LTD. Really commendable. 



Prediction made on 11/1/2008:

Q4 2008: 27M xbox LTD, 20M PS3 LTD . 2009 sales: 11M xbox,  9M PS3

amirnetz said:
Aprisaiden said:
Your forgetting that Microsoft includes Australia and New Zealand and other countries for what it calls "Europe" when talking about sales.

As for what console has been overtracked/undertracked -- wait until we get worldwide shipment numbers.

No they don't. VGChartz invented "Others" as Europe and any other country that is not in America or Japan.

Microsoft have a very precise and legal definition of Europe that is based on the geographic location of the country. If a country is outside of the European continent then it will not be call Europe. Again, nobody mocks with the numbers - they can go to jail for it. See my post above.

 

If you go to the original source you will see that MS are saying the numbers are for Europe, Middle East and Africa (EMEA). It is the media that has a bad habit of just saying Europe.

 



Go off the financial reports. Those are required to be accurate by law. Press articles and PR statements don't have have the same threshold for accuracy.



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Saiyar said:

If you go to the original source you will see that MS are saying the numbers are for Europe, Middle East and Africa (EMEA). It is the media that has a bad habit of just saying Europe.

 

 

Correct! EMEA is indeed Europe + Middle East + Africa.

As it happens, there are virtually no 360 sales in Africa and the middle east. Most of the other in VGC "Others" is made out of Australia, New Zealand, Korea and the rest of Asia - Pacific (excluding Japan) which are not EMEA. So the math does not change.



Prediction made on 11/1/2008:

Q4 2008: 27M xbox LTD, 20M PS3 LTD . 2009 sales: 11M xbox,  9M PS3

FishyJoe said:
Go off the financial reports. Those are required to be accurate by law. Press articles and PR statements don't have have the same threshold for accuracy.

Yes, there are different standards, but both are required by law to be accurate (USA law - Sabrens-Oxley).

The main difference is that the board, CEO and the CFO are personally responsible for the financial reports accuracy. The company in general is still responsible for any business performance public statement and can be found liable if it is falsely made. 



Prediction made on 11/1/2008:

Q4 2008: 27M xbox LTD, 20M PS3 LTD . 2009 sales: 11M xbox,  9M PS3

So because a US company said that a single SKU of the 360 *might* see shortages, you take that to mean there is less inventory than normal in Europe?

Keep in mind these shipped numbers you're quoting are also including units in transit, so it's a couple weeks behind.



DKII said:
So because a US company said that a single SKU of the 360 *might* see shortages, you take that to mean there is less inventory than normal in Europe?

Keep in mind these shipped numbers you're quoting are also including units in transit, so it's a couple weeks behind.

Units in transit are of course a regular part of the channel inventory. Nothing new about it and the ships are sailing at the same speed all year around. There were unit in transit before and there are units in transit now. So nothing is really changing here.

I am not proposing that "there is less inventory than normal in Europe". It is VGC that is claiming an unreasonable amout of inventory in the channel. 2M units in the channel at mid November is just an aweful lot. Way too much. 



Prediction made on 11/1/2008:

Q4 2008: 27M xbox LTD, 20M PS3 LTD . 2009 sales: 11M xbox,  9M PS3

amirnetz said:
FishyJoe said:
Go off the financial reports. Those are required to be accurate by law. Press articles and PR statements don't have have the same threshold for accuracy.

Yes, there are different standards, but both are required by law to be accurate (USA law - Sabrens-Oxley).

The main difference is that the board, CEO and the CFO are personally responsible for the financial reports accuracy. The company in general is still responsible for any business performance public statement and can be found liable if it is falsely made.

OMG I've never seen anyone make a half decent arguement against FishyJoe when it comes to economics (not saying your arguement is half decent it's a good one)...I'm going to enjoy this. Interesting thread and keep it up, I'm learning a lot! Time to make some popcorn =)

 




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