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Forums - Sony Discussion - HOW PS3 process more than 256MB?? I don´t understand.

errorrrr said:

Basically,

XDR and Cells works in a way to fetch A LOT of information in rapid manner but in smaller bits.

While the GDDR memory and the Xenon processor in Xbox360 fetches few larger chunks in a slower manner.

When people claim that PS3 have better graphic, technically it's true because in graphical terms, your image are delivered and constructed in bits and pieces called Triangles, and while GDDR can delivered larger chunks, it's not as detailed. The MORE triangles you have the better you graphics. It's like having 10,000 Triangles vs 5,000 Triangles to construct a human model, and of course 10,000 will have smoother lines and less jagged.

Now, theoretically PS3 will have better graphic, but rendering more triangles will mean more work for developer obviously you see the realistic issue here... If the developers are willing to go that far, the graphic is better. Now, for multiplatform games, of course, they are going to go with the lowest common denominator, larger chunks, and less detailed. This of course works AGAINST the PS3's fine small triangle structure, that's probably one of the reason why you see some degrades in multiplat games on the PS3.

 

Found this on the PSU forum:

PLEASE NOTICE there is no MENTION of MEMORY SIZE, because MEMORY SIZE (your 256MB vs 512MB) doesn't measure HOW FAST memory works in ANYWAY AT ALL.

 

And another :3. Thank you :)



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OMFG Error. Make thread now xD



errorrrr said:

i think the basic thing you are misunderstanding that RAM =/= speed, CPU's process power = speed. In a traditional computer, having more RAM will "help" speed is because instead of using your Hard Drive as "RAM" (which you probably dont' notice, but it's there as Virtual Memory), you have RAM that are specifically designed to store randomly accessed piece of information. Those information are dumped once your computer shuts off.

RAM works similar to HDD in terms of memory, but the difference is, that stuff in your RAM sticks are much easier and A LOT faster to be accessed, while HDD have a mechanical bottleneck to it (Spinning of the actual disk) as well as an interface bottleneck. The bigger the RAM, the more information that can be stored in location that can be accessed quickly.

Now, with the cell structure, it doesn't work like that, as of the details I am not sure. But I am guessing that instead of having to store those bits and pieces in RAM like traditional computer, the cell's 6 SPE (available to game developers) can processed the information real time instead of having the stuff store in a certain location and they chose to use 256mb of XDR type ram instead of GDDR3 type rams which are found on X360 and Wiis

If you know the XDR and GDDR3, you'll first notice that XDR's focus on speed, and I think that's what the PS3's main focus when building the machine... It's to process information quickly, and not relying on the old formula of dumping pre-rendered textures into ram... this obviously help with FREQUENT and RAPID rendering as opposed to statics.

YES! another member that understands this crap! but actually can explain it!

 



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Please note that the graph that is shown above is not correct as it "beautifies" the situation for XDR. Currently, XDR ram can be as fast as GDDR5 ram. An actual comparison of both ram architectures is difficult as it depends on many factors (bus width/bus clock/"deepness of the XDR"). The main advantage of XDR is its lower power consumption (and possibly less data/address lines depending on implementation).
If you really want to know about XDR, got to the rambus website and read.

If you really want to know about cell architecture, go to IBM website (much of what errorrr wrote is more or less incorrect).



drkohler said:

Please note that the graph that is shown above is not correct as it "beautifies" the situation for XDR. Currently, XDR ram can be as fast as GDDR5 ram. An actual comparison of both ram architectures is difficult as it depends on many factors (bus width/bus clock/"deepness of the XDR"). The main advantage of XDR is its lower power consumption (and possibly less data/address lines depending on implementation).
If you really want to know about XDR, got to the rambus website and read.

If you really want to know about cell architecture, go to IBM website (much of what errorrr wrote is more or less incorrect).

 

I've said, how cell's detail works I have no idea, but I think there is a reason that XDR was chosen to work with Cell as oppose to GDDR3... XDR is about the same speed as GDDR5, but for the sake of our discussion which is probably comparison to X360's GDDR3, XDR is comparably without a doubt faster GDDR3. And XDR2 is no doubt faster than GDDR5. From what I've read, XDR focuses on low latency, small block transaction as oppose to GDDR3's large block higher latency transaction. If I understand correctly, GDDR3 uses a 4n type pre-fetch, while XDR utilizes a 16n pre-fetch, from that it's pretty clear to see that XDR'interface can handle more transaction than GDDR3's interface. However, I think XDR's fetch are smaller than GDDR3...

And obivously, I don't think many of the average gamer would even comprehend the nitty gritty of XDR for example (Straight from Rambus' site)

The Rambus XDR™ memory interface architecture consists of four building block technologies: Differential Rambus Signaling Level (DRSL), Octal Data Rate (ODR), FlexPhase™ de-skewing circuitry, and Dynamic Point-to-Point (DPP) technology.

* DRSL (Differential Rambus Signaling Level) is a low-voltage, low-power, differential signaling standard that enables the scalable multi-GHz, bi-directional, and point-to-point data busses that connect the XIO cell to XDR DRAM devices. XDR memory solutions also use the Rambus Signaling Level (RSL) standard developed originally for the RDRAM® memory interface, enabling up to 36 devices connected to the source-synchronous, bussed address and command signals.
* ODR (Octal Data Rate) is a technology that transfers eight bits of data on each clock cycle, four times as many as today's state-of-the-art memory technologies that use DDR (Double Data Rate). XDR data rates are scalable to 8.0 GHz.
* FlexPhase deskew circuits eliminate any systematic timing offsets between the bits of an XDR memory interface data bus. With a resolution of 2.5ps (at 3.2 GHz) and a maximum range of over 10 ns, the FlexPhase technology eliminates the need to match trace lengths on the board and package. FlexPhase also dynamically calibrates out on-chip clock skew, driver/receiver mismatch, and clock standing wave effects allowing lower system cost designs.
* Dynamic Point-to-Point (DPP) technology maintains the signal integrity benefits of point-to-point signaling on the data bus while providing the flexibility of capacity expansions with module upgrades. Memory modules can be dynamically reconfigured to support diferrent data bus widths, allowing a memory controller with a fixed data bus width to connect to a variable number of module

Do most people even comprehend these terms? Telling people to read their website is a good advice, if the website can put it in laymen terms lol...



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errorrrr said:

 

Do most people even comprehend these terms? Telling people to read their website is a good advice, if the website can put it in laymen terms lol...

Well i can to a certain extent.. way back in time when clock rates around 8-12MHz were considered ultra-fast (yes people, those were the times..) I had a computer whose manufacturer went bankrupt so we had to design and build the rest of the parts ourselves (including memory cards, harddisk-adapters and a "supergraphics card (thanks to Byte's own Steve Ciarcia) which never saw the light of day..).

At clock speeds in the GHz rate, basic design technology turns into mystery art. And whenever scientists and engineers want to hide the fact that they are entering sort of a twilight zone in engineering, they use fancy expressions to hide this fact. Finding good articles that explain all the troubles and pitfalls in easy to understand terms is a real problem and I don't have any at hand myself...

 



Like many have already said, XDR is hella fast so that's enough at least for now.



 

 

 

 

 

But after all that... seems that there´s de 256MB data limit, right? (a)



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Yeah, thanks!!!



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fjburgos said:

Man people will never understand how the cell and the ps3 work, i really explain this over dozen times here on VGCHARTZ, and a few dozen more in other sites, and I'm not going to explain again I only wil say that the ps3 work very diferently than a PC or a 360 thats all tha you ned to know, and thats why is dificult to program for, the cell is a new technology that can procces grafis like a vieo card thats the only thing i will say.

How does a processor thats over 2 years old qualify as new technology?



Leo-j said: If a dvd for a pc game holds what? Crysis at 3000p or something, why in the world cant a blu-ray disc do the same?

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