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Forums - Gaming - How much longer will analog sticks be relevent in gaming?

cringer8 on 01 August 2007
your mother said:

I feel it would be a major issue as up to now I can't think of a DS title that utilizes the touchscreen that doesn't require you to fix your eyes on the screen to know what you are doing.


Mario 64 DS and Metroid PH both used the touchpad as a virtual analog stick.  No need to look at the lower screen.



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Desroko on 01 August 2007
mancandy said:
cringer8 said:
your mother said:
Desroko said:
I'd like to see touch pads icontinued; I like how the iPhone is used without a stylus, for example. There wouldn't be a need for d-pads anymore, which seem clunkier as time goes by.

I dunno. Touch pads can be nice, but there are two major inconveniences that I can think of off the top of my head:

  • Ever used a touchscreen-only remote control? They look slick and all, but you need to look at the screen to see which button you are pressing. With hard buttons (traditional remotes) you can feel the unique shapes and sizes of buttons which means you don't have to keep an eye on the remote in order to switch channels (which implies you take your eyes off the TV). Now put that into a gaming context and the problem is rather apparent.
  • Just imagine trying to pull off a "shoryuken" with a touchscreen!
You could have raised bumps (like braille) forming a + sign on the pad. It could serve as a guide. Also, any control mechanism can be learned and mastered

 


I don't know if that would work. In order for you to feel those raised bumps you have to touch them, which will activate that button.

Here's another problem, how would you hang on to the controller? You can't have your thumbs resting on top of the screen since it would activate buttons.

Touch screens also doesn't allow more than one simultaneous touch. How can pull off Zangief's spinning lariat?


I just tested a PS2, Xbox, and GC controller, and neither of them required me to rest my thumbs on top of the controller to hold it. Your third, fourth, and fifth fingers and your palms do that.

Touchpads can in fact recognize multiple touches. It's just that most don't, because it's easier to build them that way.  



Grey Acumen on 01 August 2007

Actually, as technology improves, it may be possible to provide tactile feedback to touchpads, at which point analog sticks will become unnecessary. My only issue with touchpads is the one already brought up, you need to look down to be able to see what you're pressing or exactly how things are centered.

It would be rather interesting if this every could get implemented, as it would allow for control layouts to be fully tailored for the game, rather than the game having to be tailored to the console.



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mancandy on 01 August 2007
Desroko said:
mancandy said:
cringer8 said:
your mother said:
Desroko said:
I'd like to see touch pads icontinued; I like how the iPhone is used without a stylus, for example. There wouldn't be a need for d-pads anymore, which seem clunkier as time goes by.

I dunno. Touch pads can be nice, but there are two major inconveniences that I can think of off the top of my head:

  • Ever used a touchscreen-only remote control? They look slick and all, but you need to look at the screen to see which button you are pressing. With hard buttons (traditional remotes) you can feel the unique shapes and sizes of buttons which means you don't have to keep an eye on the remote in order to switch channels (which implies you take your eyes off the TV). Now put that into a gaming context and the problem is rather apparent.
  • Just imagine trying to pull off a "shoryuken" with a touchscreen!
You could have raised bumps (like braille) forming a + sign on the pad. It could serve as a guide. Also, any control mechanism can be learned and mastered

 


I don't know if that would work. In order for you to feel those raised bumps you have to touch them, which will activate that button.

Here's another problem, how would you hang on to the controller? You can't have your thumbs resting on top of the screen since it would activate buttons.

Touch screens also doesn't allow more than one simultaneous touch. How can pull off Zangief's spinning lariat?


I just tested a PS2, Xbox, and GC controller, and neither of them required me to rest my thumbs on top of the controller to hold it. Your third, fourth, and fifth fingers and your palms do that.

Yeah...you're right. But I like to have my fingers resting right on top of the buttons without pressing them so I am ready. Also keeping them there is my reference point for the other buttons. Lifting my thumbs off will require me to look down again to see where they are.

 



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mancandy on 01 August 2007
your mother said:
mancandy said:
 

Touch screens also doesn't allow more than one simultaneous touch. How can pull off Zangief's spinning lariat?

If I'm not mistaken, the iPhone supports multiple touches. This is more an implementation issue than anything else, seeing how Apple bought out those two researchers that devised it in the first place to get their hands on this technology.

 


Those Apple guys are good. Too bad I am poor.



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vizunary on 01 August 2007

you cannot have my joysticks!!!

if you haven't noticed analog is getting better and better, compare movement sensors between like an atari stick and the ones today.

or maybe we should just waggle everything? =p



Killzone3 on 01 August 2007

For a few more decades.

Untill some hologram type thingi takes over.



cringer8 on 01 August 2007

But what about the track ball? No one thinks that would kick more ass than a stick? I've been using one at work for about a month now and I like it better than a mouse (by far). You don't have to pick it up; you can flick it and let its momentum do the work for you; it seems to have tighter control for small movements in Photoshop...

To me, it almost seems obvious as a game pad addition.



My End of 2008 Hardware Predictions (console only):

Wii : 50 million

360: 28 million

PS3: 24 million

These predictions were made on January 3rd and won't be revised

LINK

Desroko on 01 August 2007
your mother said:
Desroko said:
your mother said:
Desroko said:
I'd like to see touch pads icontinued; I like how the iPhone is used without a stylus, for example. There wouldn't be a need for d-pads anymore, which seem clunkier as time goes by.

I dunno. Touch pads can be nice, but there are two major inconveniences that I can think of off the top of my head:

  • Ever used a touchscreen-only remote control? They look slick and all, but you need to look at the screen to see which button you are pressing. With hard buttons (traditional remotes) you can feel the unique shapes and sizes of buttons which means you don't have to keep an eye on the remote in order to switch channels (which implies you take your eyes off the TV). Now put that into a gaming context and the problem is rather apparent.
  • Just imagine trying to pull off a "shoryuken" with a touchscreen!

I'm not sure either of this is really a problem. I've yet to see a game controller that has as many inputs as your average TV control, so it's not realy a valid comparison. The standard diamond-shaped pad can easily be recreated, as its four inputs in a rather large area, while a number pad has nine over a relatively smaller one. No one really looks down at the similarly-shaped face buttons on an Xbox or PS controller, because with a bit of practice your thumb knows where to go.

 

As for the second - just touch your thumb to the bottom of the pad and sweep it counter-clockwise for a quarter, and then press whatever corresponds to "Punch." To my mind this is quite a bit smoother than even the Xbox d-pad, which makes an effort to facilitate continuous motions.

I feel it would be a major issue as up to now I can't think of a DS title that utilizes the touchscreen that doesn't require you to fix your eyes on the screen to know what you are doing.

Well, with Mario Kart DS you just have to tap anywhere on the screen to switch between map modes, but then again, the touchscreen in this case serves only as a toggle.

Regarding the input issue: Let's compare a gamepad with a phone. They both have about the same number of buttons. I don't think you can dial a number on a touchscreen without looking at it. You can, however, do so with a phone with hard buttons.

I don't know how the iPhone handles this, but if they have come up with a way for you to dial a number without having to look at the touchscreen then I agree we may have a winner. Otherwise, I think touchscreen either needs to mature more, or perhaps there are other alternatives out there that are being researched.


I think I already mentioned this, but I'll explainmy thinking more clearly. Replicating a traditional nine-input number pad and a four-input d-pad aren't even close. The lower number of inputs and the different placement of the buttons make the latter far simpler.

But there's another issue - while it is indeed possible for you to recognize buttons on a d-pad by shape and placement alone, in practice very few gamers do. You don't feel for the Square button or X button - you know where they are. When holding a controller, your thumb can reach very few places, and the four buttons of a d-pad and the four quadrants of a similarly-sized touchpad are all in easy distance and set far enough from each other that you can easily find them, even under duress, without sight or touch. You just stab the area where you know the button to be, without hesitation.

This may be something that needs to physicaly verified in order to be believed (and unfortunately, I'm not going to whip up a prototype to prove my point), but I'm confident that this wouldn't be a problem.

 

Edit: It just occurred to me - if anyone is worried about knowing where you have pressed after you've done it, there's no reason for the pad to be physically indistinguishable from the casing. I'm seeing a circular pad, about the same size or slightly larger than an Xbox d-pad, raised slightly from the surface of the controller itself. That way you can feel the edge (or not) and know whether you've pressed in the center, the top, bottom, left, or right, or some combination. You'll be a natural in no time. 



mancandy on 01 August 2007
cringer8 said:
But what about the track ball? No one thinks that would kick more ass than a stick? I've been using one at work for about a month now and I like it better than a mouse (by far). You don't have to pick it up; you can flick it and let its momentum do the work for you; it seems to have tighter control for small movements in Photoshop...

To me, it almost seems obvious as a game pad addition.

 You mean like in Missle Command? That was so 1980's.



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