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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Reggie: Third parties don't "get" the Wii, more

Slick controls, deep-yet-simple gameplay, and consistent entertainment... These are easy enough concepts to grasp. What many third parties are not grasping, however, is the primary lure of the Wii: newness. Most of the core gamers who invest in the Wii are digging for the feel of something new, and of course all of the expanded audience wants to keep getting pleasantly surprised.

So no, games that ape on existing games don't do so great on the Wii. They're nothing we haven't seen a dozen times before, after all. Even if the developers make the most immersive controls ever, the most addictive gameplay imaginable, and an experience that never stops being fun, it's all for naught if it's just a rehash of what's been done before.

Even Nintendo is having trouble with fully grasping the nature of the beast they've unleashed. Surefire hits have fallen short of expectations, and unexpected "evergreen" hits have emerged where nobody was expecting that kind of success. It's not easy to grasp the expanded audience's tastes.



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Garcian Smith said:

We're already seeing improvement, really. The Wii versions of games like Sonic Unleashed and Shaun White are pulling in stronger reviews than their HD counterparts, and CoD:WAW is arguably better than the PS360 versions due to the control scheme. Now we just need something more than half-arsed exclusive efforts like Castlevania Judgment, and we'll be set.

EDIT: Also just saw that IGN reviewed Skate It really well, so add another to the pile.

 

A superior control scheme is great, but aren't things like local multiplayer and/or a strong online component just as important in a modern FPS, regardless of platform? Maybe if the developers put the same effort into the Wii version that they did on the HD consoles this could indeed be the definitive version. However, As Reggie says, most developers are not putting their best efforts on the Wii, with this being particularly evident with the Wii's 2008 holiday lineup.

From all the games you listed, Shawn White sounds like it is indeed better than the HD console versions, with Skate It looking like it's going to end up not as well recieved as last years Skate. For Sonic Unleashed pulling in stronger reviews, having the superior version of an okay game really isn't something to be vocal about.



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Squilliam said:
Khuutra said:
Squilliam said:

This is a real chicken/egg thing going on here. If COD WAW doesn't sell well, the chances that COD 5/6 (depending on who you ask) will be on the Wii will be slim - none.

See publishers are actually very conservative. They spend as little as they possibly on games unless the franchise is so strong they can justify the expenditure. Things like this have a flow on effect. Will games like Conduit see much marketing if COD WAW doesn't sell well? Will publishers even spend money trying to make innovative games when they know they hardly sell anyway and they can get better returns on releasing Nintendo knock-offs?

The actual talent in the industry is actually very limited. The issue isn't about where the publishers invest the bulk of their money/manpower its about where they can best invest the real talent they have. These are the people who make the real money in the industry and the people around them are just there to help make it happen.

 

 

 

 

I can't agree with this assertion only because the lack of third-party sales on the Wii comes from the fact that developers are ham-fisting it on one hand and half-assing it on the other. Yes, it requires a risk, but testing the waters with half-baked software is going to get you the results you are asking for.

Equating any Call of Duty with innovative games is a travesty. Innovative games on the Wii, the super-niche titles that actually try new things, sell much better than their equivalents on other systems. De Blob, Zack and Wiki, No More Heroes, what have you - these games don't even exist on the 360 and PS3, and they sell better than equivalent games did on the PS2. Hell, NMH curb-stomped every single Clover Studios game except for Viewtiful Joe.

This is not a chicken/egg problem, because it is all too obvious where the problem originates: "safe", half-hearted games do not sell.

So... One of the highest selling franchises which has been made with a pretty good effort on the Wii bombs. What does that do? It means that shooters are going to be fewer and further between on the Wii. The Wii proved it can sell music games, and it gets Guitar Hero like everyone else. If the Wii proves is struggles to sell core games then I guess its more cooking mama and petz in the future since they have proved themselves to be profitable ventures.

You know the one thing which breaks the rule on metacritic for higher rated games vs sales are the innovative games. They are rated highly but they never sell as well as titles which aren't innovative, but have a similar or lower rating. Also I never said that COD was innovative, I just said that innovation hardly ever pays off.

And no, COD WAW Wii was not half hearted.

 

Actually, COD WAW on others sales isnt that bad, just compare it to other games sales especially MOH: H2. Most Wii owners even the core ones dont buy games on its first day or its on first week. Just take a look at Boom Blox for example, it sells in 80,000 in its first month not first week and yet it already passes in 500,000 mark.

I knew this will coming I know because Activision themselves dont want this game to sell. Lack of online modes, no vehicles, lack of maps, only 8 players online at a time, no advertising at all, no hype sorrounding it, and its short in supply Im surprised that it sells as it already did...

 



end of core gaming days prediction:

 

E3 2006-The beginning of the end. Wii introduced

 

E3 2008- Armageddon. Wii motion plus introduced. Wii Music. Reggie says Animal crossing was a core game. Massive disappointment. many Wii core gamers selling their Wii.

 

E3 2010- Tape runs out

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/march2009/ICG_Tape_runs_out.jpg

Come to think of it, this is a wake up call for Activision to develop core quality games for the Wii for now on. Like I said, Activision dont want this game to sell on the Wii and yet it have growing community and it sell as it did. I think this is a stab for Activision that Treyarch made a Wii version of COD: WAW. If Infinity Ward will make a Wii version it will be like a PS2 game without online multiplayer. COD 4 port or COD 6 sequel for the Wii is inevitable...



end of core gaming days prediction:

 

E3 2006-The beginning of the end. Wii introduced

 

E3 2008- Armageddon. Wii motion plus introduced. Wii Music. Reggie says Animal crossing was a core game. Massive disappointment. many Wii core gamers selling their Wii.

 

E3 2010- Tape runs out

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/march2009/ICG_Tape_runs_out.jpg

Legend11 said:
ItsaMii said:
Anyone really misses the support from the 3rd parties that "don`t get it"? They are Ubisoft, SE, THQ, Konami, Activision, EA. Most of their "AAA" franchises are not really worth playing. The only ones that could really help the Wii library are Namco and Capcom. But they are too busy working on crap that no one cares about or interesting games that will sell like shit (Bionic Commando, Eternal Sonata, Dead Rising CTYD, Tales of Vesperia).

The biggest difference between the HD fanboy and Wii fanboy is that the Wii one is more honest. He is not happy with the 3rd party support on the Wii, but that doesn`t mean that he would like the HD games to take its place. He refuses to pay more for less. The HD fanboys love to talk about the "AAA" exclusives, Metacritic average, next gen graphics and all sort of PR memes their limited intelect can grasp. The truth is that they keep getting inferior versions of best selling PS2 franchises with shorter campaigns and multiplayer features tacked on, not to mention that the games cost more and have bigger release gaps. Did I also mention that they suck compared to the older games?

 

Intellect is spelled with two l's...  Also I feel that the games released for the HD consoles this generation are on average pretty good compared to the last generation.  I mean games like Call of Duty 4, Metal Gear Solid 4, Bioshock, and others are very solid titles.

That explain why I didnt find any mistakes when I googled for the term. "Intelect" is used like a trademark, like NPD Intelect or the Intelect magazine. Intellect is the correct word in this case. To think that even a word spelled wrong is a valid word. Also, I am glad to see you are not making the same basic grammar mistakes. For someone that live in a english speaking country that would be embarassing.

If you can only come up with 3 games as counter argument, I don`t think you have a good argument in the first place. One of them is a new IP, not really part of any series. I can think of dozens of series that degenerated on the (fake) HD consoles. Silent Hill Homecoming (the worst in the series if you ignore the PSP version), Devil May Cry 4 (easier, shorter and crappier), Need for Speed series (it sucked on the PS2, now it can hardly sell enough units) GTA 4, Soul Calibur 4 (fans consider it the weakest SC), Bomberman Act Zero (the worst Bomberman game ever), Turok (the series are getting worse and worse), Pro Evolution Soccer (every new version, we get less polishment, more bugs, lazy design, reused models).  Also, how can you list MGS 4 if you didn`t play it or their prequels? It is the worst selling in the series so far and it may have a development budget bigger than all of the other MGS combined. Unless you played all of the MGS games, you can`t really tell me it improved on quality and gameplay.

Looking at it from a 3rd party perspective is also not good. Take 2/Rockstar now has Bioshock and GTA 4, last gen they had Max Payne, 3 different GTAs, The Bully (not a crappy port), 2 Manhunts, The Warriors (great classic). Capcom has Dead Rising (subpar franchise), Lost Planet (shitty game), SF 4 and RE on the way. Last gen they had 4 Onimushas (all excellent games), 2 Viewtiful Joes, Okami, RE 4, REmake, RE 0, RE Code Veronica, minor RE titles (Outbreak 1 and 2, Survivor), Haunting Grounds and dozens of others that are good but not great (Devil Kings, God Hand, SF spinofss, Killer 7, Shadow of Rome, Clock Tower 3). konami is only making some rushed yearly editions of Winning Eleven (Pro Evo), SH Homecoming sucked, MGS 4 had good reviews and ok sales, there is also a Castlevania title coming. Last gen they had 2 3D Castlevanias (shitty games, but 2 shitty games are better than 1), 2 Zone of Enders (great games with average sales), 3 Sillent Hills, 2 Metal Gears and remake for the GC (developed by SK), a lot of other mediocre games like Contra, Gradius, DDR. SK shifted from being the universally aclaimed Eternal Darkness developer to the guys who made the crappy ill-conceived Too Human. SE so far made the floppy and poorly reviewed Infinite Undiscovery, published a crappy Xbox 360 exclusive that flopped, promised Star Ocean 4, FF 13 + spin offs and 2 new IPs that no one really cares about. Last gen they made 3 main FFs (FF 11 making it to this gen), FF X-2, FF 7 DoC (awful game), FFCC, 2 Kingdom Hearts, Star Ocean 3, DQ 8 and 2 Japan only remakes and dozens of other games that are bad or didn`t sell enough to be relevant (3 Full Metal Alchemist, Drakengard, The Bouncer, Saga game, Mana game). Nippon Ichi released 2 or 3 games every year on the PS2, now they only made Disgaea 3 and it is the worst selling in the series. Namco released Eternal Sonata (big flop on both platforms), SC 4, Ace Cobat 6, a Katamari game, Time Crisis 4 (big flop), a new Japan only IP - Idol Master, has Tekken on the way and made a new Tales game (the most expensive Tales ever) that couldn`t even outsell the low quality PSP spin. Last gen we had 3 main Tales games (one was really poor) and several spin offs and remakes (Tales of Fandon and such), 2 Tekkens, 2 Katamaris, 2 Soul Calibur games (one of them with a exclusive character for each console, 3), 3 Ace Combats, 2 Baten Kaitos, Klonoa 2 (a great game). Tecmo almost had to get out of the business for focusing on HD development (2 Dead or Alive and Ninja Gaiden 2 and the remake Ninja Gaiden Sigma). Last gen they had NG and its improved version, the crappy Dead or Alive games (4), 3 Fatal Frames (amazing games). Ubisoft is making a lot of money (especially on the DS), but their games never sucked so much. They have 4 Tom Clancy games, AC (shitty game), Farcry 2 (sure the PC game was not a big deal, but this one sucks more), a PoP and BGE 2 on the way. Last gen they had 3 PoP, Beyong Good and Evil, 2 Rayman, more than 10 Tom Clancy game, they also published XIII (solid FPS). Activision is making money and I am too lazy to list all their releases. Even so, they are canceling promising games like Brutal Legends and Ghostbuster. Guitar Hero was a nice idea on the PS2, now it is just this generation Tony Hawk (milk it until no one care about it anymore).

Summing up. We get less games, they sell less, they cost more, they take a lot more time to be released and their quality is lower than in the PS2 era. If you think the 3 games you mentioned are worth that loss, then I have nothing else to say.



Satan said:

"You are for ever angry, all you care about is intelligence, but I repeat again that I would give away all this superstellar life, all the ranks and honours, simply to be transformed into the soul of a merchant's wife weighing eighteen stone and set candles at God's shrine."

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ameratsu said:

@RubangB: World of Goo is also on pc. It's not an exclusive.

Oops.  Forgot about that.  Then I'll replace it with Kororinpa: Marble Mania.

This is of course all assuming that "first party games don't count," but they do, and Nintendo is the greatest software developer in the world, in regards to influence, critical acclaim, sales records, and amount of beloved returning franchises.  The whole idea that "first party games don't count" is completely ridiculous.  Wii has great 3rd party support and the best 1st party support in the world.

The PS3 and 360 have great 3rd party support too, but it's the same 3rd party support their last consoles had.  Neither system has offered me enough new unique gaming experiences to get my money, and considering their gaming philosophies, I highly doubt they ever will.  I'm sure LBP is awesome, but I can't afford to buy an LBPS3.  The 2 games on the 360 that tempted me the most were Dead Rising and Geometry Wars, but they both made the jump to Wii anyway.



The Ghost of RubangB said:
NYANKS said:
Not meaning to be inflammatory, but I can understand third parties getting a mixed message when games like Carnival Games and Wii Sports/Play/Fit are among the best games on the console and games that are more "serious" seem to be missed, NMH, Okami, apparently COD: World at war.....

If Ninty changes their marketing a little, they could do a lot to dispel this, but they don't. And quite frankly, the only visibly hurt by this are some of the Wii consumers, so I can't fault them for continuing to push stuff like their Wii Series, Animal Crossing, and even Flash focus and brain Training for the DS.

Carnival Games is one of the best games on the console?

Also, the most "serious" game in the world is Brain Training, and it sells better than all your favorite games.

There are 3rd parties making amazing games for the Wii, and they are being rewarded with good sales, good reviews, and artistic credibility.  Anybody who disagrees has bad taste in games.

You forgot the most important thing from a business view profit those developers don't have to pray everynight because their games ain't need to sell at least 1m in order to make a profit, with 300-500k they are more than happy (ex, NMH)

 



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@ItsaMii, thank you for putting the time and effort into that post. I've always known that HD was a huge mistake, and I knew the reasons why (bigger budgets and bigger dev teams and longer dev cycles mean fewer games which means more sequelitis and a less diverse gaming library than past generations), but I stopped paying attention to HD gaming so long ago that it would've taken me forever to look all that up and actually explain each company's sad pathetic downfall. That was amazing. I'm bookmarking that post.

 

EDIT: Yeah Falcon, I can't believe I forgot profit.  Even critical and commercial flops on HD consoles can lose tons of money.



So this guy is saying games such as Final Fantasy XIII should come to the Wii?

LOL!!!!

1. Greedy. 2. QFT 3. Never, If sony wouldnt stop such a thing, Microsoft sure as hell would.



Squilliam said:

So... One of the highest selling franchises which has been made with a pretty good effort on the Wii bombs. What does that do? It means that shooters are going to be fewer and further between on the Wii. The Wii proved it can sell music games, and it gets Guitar Hero like everyone else. If the Wii proves is struggles to sell core games then I guess its more cooking mama and petz in the future since they have proved themselves to be profitable ventures.

You know the one thing which breaks the rule on metacritic for higher rated games vs sales are the innovative games. They are rated highly but they never sell as well as titles which aren't innovative, but have a similar or lower rating. Also I never said that COD was innovative, I just said that innovation hardly ever pays off.

And no, COD WAW Wii was not half hearted.

Well, it's nice you acknowledge that high metacritic scores don't just translate to high sales.

Regardless of how bad CoD:WaW opened, I think the game will still sell enough for a profit. It certainly won't do enough to force IW to port their CoD's on the Wii, though. I honestly wouldn't care for one anyways, they're better off sticking to what they're good at. I'll consider an FPS for the Wii when it's built specifically with it in mind and offers something unique - I have a PS3 for my CoD needs.

It's true that testing the waters of the Wii come with a certain risk, but it still doesn't make sense how few are really putting in an effort. I don't think making a unique HD game like Mirror's Edge is all that conservative...


@ameratsu: Generally when talking about exclusives, we don't include PC. Otherwise, the 360 exclusive library looks... awfully small.