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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Reggie: Third parties don't "get" the Wii, more

Khuutra on 20 November 2008

The perspective of NMH is more akin to God Hand than it is to Devil May Cry, as the camera spends most of its time over your shoulder when you are doing more serious fighting.



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Esa-Petteri on 20 November 2008
Falcon095 said:
Esa-Petteri said:

@falcon905

I haven't played NMH so I can't really tell what are that kind of games? Maybe you can give me some examples of games that compare to NMH.

 

 Rubang just gave some example, like God of War and DMC, besides.. is that all that you'll reply from my post?

 

 

Ok. Then I can give you 2 examples of games like NMH which have sold a lot better. God of war and DMC. Actually there are a lot of iterations of those games...

Why? Because you replied to a post which was not directed to you and I pretty much agree with what you said in most of your points. But ok, I will reply to your previous post.

 

1) NMH is a niche title, however similar titles have sold more. For example, dmc&god of war.

2) As you said, most of the time. There are a lot of examples (gow,ac,mass effect,bioshock etc) that a new ip has done well. Of course there are times when they don't.

3) I won't be answering this, since that would sound like trolling. (watered down versions)

4) Well, marketing. Of course people have to know about the game. There are some people who know about the games without ads. I for one can't remember seeing any other than wii (sports), lbp and singstar ads. Haven't bought any of them. ;) But yeah, that is true for the most of the people. I think that halo and gears of war would have sold a lot with very little advertisement. The same is with SMG,kart,brawl etc.

But what is right marketing for some wii games?



Esa-Petteri on 20 November 2008
The Ghost of RubangB said:
Esa-Petteri said:
The Ghost of RubangB said:
Esa-Petteri said:
@ghost of rubang b

My point was that why should a wii fit owner buy another fitness game. If it is not bundled with balance board, it won't attract new buyers. Sounds like a total failure to me. :)

Now I get it. There is nothing original about NMH itself, it is the wiimote. Would DMC be original if it was on PS3/360 with wiimote-copy?

I'm not saying No More Heroes is good just because they slapped some Wii remote functionality onto it.  No More Heroes is good because Grasshopper and Suda51 get the Wii, and they thought of a great way to incorporate the new motion controls in a fun way that doesn't detract from the experience.  Many games just slap some waggle on and it ruins the whole game.

Here's an example of how to ruin a beat-'em-up on the Wii: Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.  You just hit "attack" over and over and over forever.  But now instead of that being a button, it's waggle.  They replaced button-mashing with waggle-mashing.  It's horrible.  And not only that, you only play with 1 turtle at a time.

If Capcom could incorporate good motion controls into an old genre, it would be a good game.  Many companies don't get it.  That's what I'm talking about.  DMC would not be original if it was on the PS360 with "wiimote-copy."  Copying is not original.  Ever.

 

People who enjoy Wii Fit might be interested in trying out another exercise game.  Why would anybody who already owns an FPS buy a thousand more?

Also, about 1 out of 3 Wii owners buy Wii Fit.  Maybe the other 2 out of 3 would prefer the cheaper EA knockoff?

 

Wait, is NMH a new genre? What is it, once again? You haven't yet told me what is so original about it. Just the wiimote-part. IF microsoft would make wiimote-copy, how that would make third party games not original? They would not have copied wiimote... or what was that point again?

 

Now I really don't get you. First you say that EA-fit will fail and when I am agreeing with you, you seem to convince me that it could sell. Those 2/3 would need to buy wii fit, just to play EA-fit. Somehow I don't see that happening, do you? ;) You certainly know there is a difference with the target audience who buys fps-games and the majority of the audience who buys wii fit.

 

Oh sorry.  No More Heroes is kind of like a sandbox game like GTA, and you can walk around and drive around everywhere and explore and do side-missions and go shopping and stuff, but you fight with a sword (basically a light saber) instead of a gun, so it's all melee combat, so it's also like a 3-D melee beat-'em-up like Devil May Cry or whatever.

It has a great original story and great original artwork and animation style.  And the controls are amazing.  I just listed the one Wii-remote move that made the biggest difference for me.  But it also lets you do other things, like wrestling moves that are really badass.  Here are some trailers with a good mix of gameplay and cutscenes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYvW-LyqYRY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqtHaeYmm-8

 

I still think the EA Fit game will fail.  I'm just saying that the question "Why would somebody who already owns Wii Fit buy another exercise game?" is not a good argument.  I love rhythm games, so I buy several.  Some people love shooters, so they buy several.  Some people will love exercise games, and buy several.  And you don't need the balance board to play EA's new Wii Fit ripoff.  It's only with the remotes and nunchucks.  It will be cheaper than Wii Fit.

I really don't believe there is a difference between FPS fans and Wii Fit fans.  I think the whole idea of a "magical new casual audience that shops differently" is a bunch of bullshit.

 

Ok. I still think NMH is just another hack'n'slash title, but as I said. I have to try it out some day. Maybe I will see the light too.

I missed the part when you said that EA-fit does not need the balance board. :p Anyway, I shouldn't have said that. Of course there is somebody who buys another fitness game. I just doubt that there aren't too many of them.

There is a difference. I will use numbers to prove my point!

wii fit sales: 10 million

fps game sales on 360: at least 40 million!

But really, most of those who buy fps-games are the ones who buy a lot of games. Most of those who buy wii fit are not the ones who buy a lot of games.



noname2200 on 20 November 2008
Esa-Petteri said:

Ok. I still think NMH is just another hack'n'slash title, but as I said. I have to try it out some day. Maybe I will see the light too.

But really, most of those who buy fps-games are the ones who buy a lot of games. Most of those who buy wii fit are not the ones who buy a lot of games.

Meh. I didn't.

Esa-Petteri said:

There is a difference. I will use numbers to prove my point!

wii fit sales: 10 million

fps game sales on 360: at least 40 million!

??? Sorry, I missed something here. Ah well, no matter.

Esa-Petteri said:

But really, most of those who buy fps-games are the ones who buy a lot of games. Most of those who buy wii fit are not the ones who buy a lot of games.

Out of curiousity, what (beyond the stereotypes) are you using to create this claim?



Esa-Petteri on 20 November 2008

@noname2000

Vgchart numbers. If you care to prove me wrong, show me other fitness-titles that have sold a lot. I can show you a lot of fps-titles that have sold a lot.



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noname2200 on 20 November 2008
Esa-Petteri said:
@noname2000

Vgchart numbers. If you care to prove me wrong, show me other fitness-titles that have sold a lot. I can show you a lot of fps-titles that have sold a lot.

That's...unbelievably weak support.

 

Allow me to summarize:

 

But really, most of those who buy fps-games are the ones who buy a lot of games. Support: "A lot of fps-titles...have sold a lot."

Most of those who buy wii fit are not the ones who buy a lot of games. Support: No other fitness-title has sold a lot.[/quote]

 

Does this look accurate to you? I want to know, so as to not waste everyone's time by pointing out the blatantly obvious fallacies in this argument, if they're not what you meant.



Khuutra on 20 November 2008

Go ahead and point them out. I don't think anyone really minds.



noname2200 on 20 November 2008
RolStoppable said:
Khuutra said:
Go ahead and point them out. I don't think anyone really minds.

I think it's a clever way of Esa to point out why certain software doesn't seem to sell on the Wii. Something that is not available, can't sell. So the reason why we don't see good FPS sell well on the Wii is because they have yet to be made.

Do I get a cookie now?

The sad part is that you're punching holes in the part of his argument that makes the most sense.

Please, someone tell me I'm misunderstanding him.

 



Khuutra on 20 November 2008
noname2200 said:
RolStoppable said:
Khuutra said:
Go ahead and point them out. I don't think anyone really minds.

I think it's a clever way of Esa to point out why certain software doesn't seem to sell on the Wii. Something that is not available, can't sell. So the reason why we don't see good FPS sell well on the Wii is because they have yet to be made.

Do I get a cookie now?

The sad part is that you're punching holes in the part of his argument that makes the most sense.

Please, someone tell me I'm misunderstanding him.

 

 

You are not. He is saying that, because other exercise games have not yet sold on the Wii, that Wii Fit owners must not buy any other games period. Because Wii Fit owners only own Wii Fit.



noname2200 on 20 November 2008
Khuutra said:
noname2200 said:
RolStoppable said:
Khuutra said:

Please, someone tell me I'm misunderstanding him.

You are not. He is saying that, because other exercise games have not yet sold on the Wii, that Wii Fit owners must not buy any other games period. Because Wii Fit owners only own Wii Fit.

Essa-Peterri, I shed these tears for thee.