dallas said:
Bodhesatva said:
dallas said:
Bodhesatva said:
dallas said:
First of all, Nintendo has done very very well for themselves and they deserve the recognition that they are getting.
Microsoft on the other hand, couldn't be doing worse. For a highly profitable company, they are doing pretty bad with their console-based gaming. I don't think that they will even put out another console after the 360 is over and done with (in 4-5 years).
Of course, this reduced amount of competition will add to the amount of profits that both nintendo and sony will bring in, but will probably end up helping Sony more, simply because the 360 vs the PS3 are more of a substitute and seek to go after gamers more similar than in a PS3 vs Wii comparison. |
It's interesting you should say this, because as I've noted (I went back and added a few comments) Microsoft and Sony have lost a very similar amount of money over the last year and a half -- and Microsoft would be quite a bit ahead, if they had not been forced to eat a 1.1 billion dollar write off for the extended warranty. I think it's quite likely that Sony will post another loss next quarter, while Microsoft will either post a profoundly lower loss or an actual profit for the first time in two years for their gaming division. In short, while Sony did appear to make reasonably healthy profits at one time, they've effectively fallen to Microsoft-level losses over the last 1.5 years, and with the poor PS3 sales and recent price cut, there isn't a great deal of evidence that those losses are going to go away soon. Simple point: ignoring Microsoft's extended warranty for a moment (and I agree, that's not entirely fair -- but we're trying to look at normal operating losses from development, production, and sales of games and game hardware) Sony has lost more money than Microsoft every quarter for the last year, and I think that trend is likely to continue for at least another quarter, and likely more. |
1. Microsoft has lost almost 3 times the earnings that Sony has, with respect to their games divisions over the entire period that you presented. I would not think that the overall levels would be similar at all, unless you were comparing the most recent quarter for sony and microsoft. 2. Sony's negative profits in its gaming division have gotten to a level of a third of the previous quarter, and look to be on an improving trend. They might even turn a profit for the current quarter the way things have been improving. 3. Microsoft is doing somewhat worse than Sony right now, not only in terms of sales, but also in terms of just how much money they have to entice developers to produce more games for them. Out of all of the exclusive games announced for either the 360 or PS3, the majority lately sound like they have been announced for the PS3 platform. In other words, Sony is offering $$$ when it knows that microsoft is cash-poor, so that 2008 will be a good year for them. Now, it would be a mistake to take these comments as me saying that the 360 is about to be pushed out of the market, i'm not saying that at all. I just think that the dominance of the 360 is coming to an end. |
1. I specifically said in my post that I was discussing the last 1.5 years, or 6 quarters. In that time frame, Microsoft has lost 2.7 billion dollars, while Sony has lost 2.3 billion. Sony has lost less... but only 14 percent less, and that's including the extended warranty's billion dollar write off (MS would be way ahead if that write off weren't there, but it needs to be included). If Microsoft has lost tons of money, is hemmoraging, is doing terribly, then Sony is only doing slightly less terribly, and is only losing 14 percent less money. 2. Sony's losses are less severe this quarter for natural reasons; Jan-March is always the worst quarter every year. Look at last year; 525 million in losses in Jan-March 2006, followed by 213 million in losses in March-June 2006. In Jan-March 2007, they lost 914 million, followed by 300 million in losses in April-June. Sony's losses are up from this time last year, not down. Sony's losses will decrease even further as we approach Christmas, then plummet again at the beginning of the year. These things are cyclical -- it would be like comparing Christmas-time sales to sales in June. Does that seem fair? You have to compare on a season to season, and so far this year, Sony's gaming division has lost more money than they did last year at this time. A lot more. 3. This is incorrect. Microsoft has considerably more exclusives, as can be viewed here. http://www.gamingtarget.com/article.php?artid=7252
You are correct that in the last week, Sony has seen more exclusives announced, but that's because they just had the "Playstation Premier," for which the whole point is to announce new exclusive titles. In general, Microsoft has both more exclusive titles released and more in development. And how do you figure that MS has less money to spend to entice developers to produce games for them? I'm honestly curious how you reached this conclusion. Both are losing gobs of money in their gaming divisions specifically, so they need to look to their parent companies to help them out. Microsoft's overall profits are somewhere around 5-10 times that of Sony's yearly profits. Microsoft also has 7 times as much money in cash reserve, as can be viewed here:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=sony+cash+reserves&btnG=Google+Search
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/131322_msftearn18.html
As you can see, Microsoft has -- by far -- the largest cash reserves of any tech company in the world. It has around 49 billion, while Sony has around 7-8 billion. So, Microsoft is making 5-10 times as much in profits and has 7 times as much money in reserve; how does Sony have more ammunition? Honest question -- not sarcastic -- because I don't know how you reached this conclusion. Microsoft could spend Sony into the ground. |
1. You said: "Microsoft's fiscal year has just ended. Their earnings for the past three years have been -3,526,000,000, or appoximately 3.5 billion dollars in losses." You also said: " Sony's earnings over the last three years in their gaming division have been -1,300,000,000 or 1.3 billion dollars in losses." That was what I was comparing and from what I see, it looks like MS's gaming division lost almost 3X's the amount the Sony's comparative division did. 2. I think that you misunderstood what I said. I did not compare which company had more total exclusives, but rather I said that they **announced** exclusives for the last month were decidedly in sony's favor when comparing them with microsoft, at least from the announcements that I have. But in any case I haven't researched this any more than looking at what kotaku.com has to say, so I might be wrong for all I know. |
1. I then said: "It's interesting you should say this, because as I've noted (I went back and added a few comments) Microsoft and Sony have lost a very similar amount of money over the last year and a half,
In short, while Sony did appear to make reasonably healthy profits at one time, they've effectively fallen to Microsoft-level losses over the last 1.5 years, and with the poor PS3 sales and recent price cut, there isn't a great deal of evidence that those losses are going to go away soon.
Simple point: ignoring Microsoft's extended warranty for a moment (and I agree, that's not entirely fair -- but we're trying to look at normal operating losses from development, production, and sales of games and game hardware) Sony has lost more money than Microsoft every quarter for the last year, and I think that trend is likely to continue for at least another quarter, and likely more."
This is very simple: Sony used to make more money than Microsoft did (2-3 years ago) but has been losing almost as much money as Microsoft has in the last 1.5 years. I absolutely agree that 3 years ago, Microsoft was losing more money in gaming, but that has changed. In the last 1.5 years, due to Sony's dramatic drop in earnings, Microsoft has lost approximately the same amount of money as Sony has. The math is very simple. Do it yourself! It's right there. Microsoft has lost 2.7 billion, including the 1.1 billion dollar warranty, and Sony has lost 2.3 billion. That's a 14 percent difference between the two over the last year and a half.
2. As I said, that's because Sony just had the Playstation Premier. It's a yearly event for which the entire purpose is to announce exclusive Playstation titles. Please look at the following information:
http://www.gamingtarget.com/article.php?artid=6143
This details how many exclusives each system had when the Playstation 3 launched last november. The Xbox360 had 75, the Playstation3 46. Now look at the most recent information:
http://www.gamingtarget.com/article.php?artid=7252
360 has 96, and the Playstation3 has 47. Even including the 5 titles announced at the Playstation Premier, the Playstation3 has had 6 net new exclusives announced since it was concieved, while the 360 has seen 21 in that same time frame.
