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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Miyamoto's Mistake and what it'll cost the Wii

celine said:
bardicverse said:
Gamerace said:


I do feel, unfortunately, that ultimately despite it's success Miyamoto won't ever be happy with the end results of Wii Music. I feel it was dear to his heart and he'll be disappointed it wasn't more universally embraced.

To be honest, as a game developer, I hope he IS disappointed with it so he learns a lesson from it. Maybe it will wake in him up from making novelty game ideas and bring him back to making a new, core-focused IP. How badass would it be to see Miyamoto break out the next brand new IP that is tantamount to the legends such as Mario, Donkey Kong and Zelda? And how much would that piss off all the Sony/MS fans?

 

He is a smart business man. All game designers should be.

 

true, I agree with you, but before he is a businessman, he is a game designer. There's a reason why Zelda games tend to fluctuate between young link and adult link. This is Miyamato's son, and he hates to see him grow up. Call it midlife crisis if you will, but Link is Miyamoto's kid, his soul. It's time to give link a brother in the Miyamoto clan

 



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Ail said:
noname2200 said:
famousringo said:
pastro243 said:

From what I've played, Wii Music IS actually more accessible than Guitar Hero et. al. I've seen novices on Guitar Hero struggle greatly on Easy mode (I certainly did myself) for hours before the whole thing "clicked." By contrast, none of the instruments in Wii Music are particularly hard to "get"; you'll be strumming along in minutes. So I think with that game, it's Mission Accomplished, as not knowing the mechanics of instruments is no longer an obstacle.

That's kinda pushing it. I know you're trying to make a point but still...

It took my wife all of 4 tries to beat one song in easy and she had never played a console game before in her life, the only thing she plays is MMORPGs on the PC...

She had never played a musical instrument either before...

Granted it wasn't a perfect but she did it and all it took to convince her to try it was see me playing the game.

As for people that actually play Guitar in real, well I have a friend that beat every GH:WT songs on expert on his first try and yes he plays guitar in real...

And that's what attract a lot of people with GH and Rockband, the instruments look like real instrument and when you see a guy playing the guitar and hear a Rolling Stones or an Aerosmith song, you want to do the same...

That is one key thing most people didn't mention in this thread, GH and Rock Band are built around songs most people of a certain age have danced to and heard countless times on the radio and tv, songs by bands a lot of us were big fans of.

Wii Music, not so much, mainly dare I say, kids tunes, and seeing the pile of money Nintendo sits on, it really feels like they were real cheap in that area....

As for the whole creativity argument. Fact is most people that play music in real actually play music composed by someone else. So in the end it's all more similar to the GH3/Rock Band experience... Very few people actually try to compose their own music...

A couple of points:

First, I don't think I'm pushing things at all. As far as I know, it takes most people several tries to get through their first song, on Easy, in Guitar Hero, despite the songs deliberately being quite forgiving, and even then their victory is touch-and-go.

This despite the fact that the early songs are tailor-made for novices: the jewels move at the rate of molasses, there are only three of them, and they are few and far between, with none of the early songs requiring you to press more than one button at a time. Nonetheless, it still takes multiple attempts to beat the song, not because the song is hard, but because the method of control is so inaccessible in the beginning. Sure, you will get used to it, because the game looks fun and is worth getting used to, but that doesn't make it accessible. By contrast, you can dive into Wii Music's mechanics quickly: the challenge comes from making the music itself.

Second, it's true that most people play music that's composed by someone else. But, from my personal experience, most people start to improvise after the first few play-throughs: add a few notes here, stretch out that note there, emphasize a beat here...you try to make the song your own.

I'm going to guess that you don't play an instrument yourself (you should!), or you wouldn't have made that claim in this manner. The next time you're at a music store, browse the classical and jazz sections in particular. You'll notice that there are dozens of recordings of the same song, but by different performers. Listen to three or four of them. The differences in their interpretations are obvious from the get-go, despite the fact that they're usually playing the exact same notes, but with radically different interpretations.

Guitar Hero doesn't allow that; you play the same song by the same rules everytime. The makers of the game, in fact, once compared the experience to a recording which only continues if you insert the proper input at the proper time. That's not what musicians do.

Wii Music, on the other hand, is built to allow just such an improvisation (not to make your own song from scratch. Sadly.). Your own argument shows that Wii Music is in fact closer to what people who actually play music do.

Third...Nintendo mostly went the cheap route in the song selection, and that sucks. But "mostly kid's music"? Hardly that, my friend! As you see, they ain't all "Twinkle Twinkle" and "Yankee Doodle." A lot of it is licensed pop songs, Nintendo themes, or classical music. I'd also add that you can do a lot with "kid's music." Mozart alone composed a dozen variations of Twinkle Twinkle, for instance, and I consider him to be a real musician...

 



@ noname & Ail - Perhaps ironically you guys seem to be proving one of my points. Peope with an aptitude for music will love Wii Music but those without won't. Which seems to be exactly what's going on in your conversation.



 

Gamerace said:
@ noname & Ail - Perhaps ironically you guys seem to be proving one of my points. Peope with an aptitude for music will love Wii Music but those without won't. Which seems to be exactly what's going on in your conversation.

That would be ironic...if I was any good at music. Really, though, I suck.

I do enjoy trying my hand at the piano, though, albeit only in the privacy of my room.



What it will cost the Wii?... hmm lets see how about several million in profit?



If it isn't turnbased it isn't worth playing   (mostly)

And shepherds we shall be,

For Thee, my Lord, for Thee. Power hath descended forth from Thy hand, That our feet may swiftly carry out Thy command. So we shall flow a river forth to Thee And teeming with souls shall it ever be. In Nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritūs Sancti. -----The Boondock Saints

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noname2200 said:
Gamerace said:
@ noname & Ail - Perhaps ironically you guys seem to be proving one of my points. Peope with an aptitude for music will love Wii Music but those without won't. Which seems to be exactly what's going on in your conversation.

That would be ironic...if I was any good at music. Really, though, I suck.

I do enjoy trying my hand at the piano, though, albeit only in the privacy of my room.

 

 The fact that you have a piano sure says something though.  Much like Miyamoto has a guitar but also only plays for his own amusement.  I'm sure a lot of untalented people with some musical acuity with really love the game because it'll help them really discover music in a way they never have before.  For those the game is truly genius.



 

Gamerace said:
noname2200 said:
Gamerace said:
@ noname & Ail - Perhaps ironically you guys seem to be proving one of my points. Peope with an aptitude for music will love Wii Music but those without won't. Which seems to be exactly what's going on in your conversation.

That would be ironic...if I was any good at music. Really, though, I suck.

I do enjoy trying my hand at the piano, though, albeit only in the privacy of my room.

 

 The fact that you have a piano sure says something though.  Much like Miyamoto has a guitar but also only plays for his own amusement.  I'm sure a lot of untalented people with some musical acuity with really love the game because it'll help them really discover music in a way they never have before.  For those the game is truly genius.

 

Dunno, I know guitar players love GH and RB ( I have a friend who keeps complaining how easy RB is and was working his way through GH3 expert with the cheatcode to make the display of the notes even faster on the TV, I think he just got GH:WT and was in top 10 WW for the song he got 100% on in perfect, that's one thing with GH too you can compare scores and stuff for those of us that are competitive).

Maybe people playing other instruments though......



PS3-Xbox360 gap : 1.5 millions and going up in PS3 favor !

PS3-Wii gap : 20 millions and going down !

bardicverse said:
celine said:
bardicverse said:

To be honest, as a game developer, I hope he IS disappointed with it so he learns a lesson from it. Maybe it will wake in him up from making novelty game ideas and bring him back to making a new, core-focused IP. How badass would it be to see Miyamoto break out the next brand new IP that is tantamount to the legends such as Mario, Donkey Kong and Zelda? And how much would that piss off all the Sony/MS fans?

 

He is a smart business man. All game designers should be.

 

true, I agree with you, but before he is a businessman, he is a game designer. There's a reason why Zelda games tend to fluctuate between young link and adult link. This is Miyamato's son, and he hates to see him grow up. Call it midlife crisis if you will, but Link is Miyamoto's kid, his soul. It's time to give link a brother in the Miyamoto clan

 

I don't think there is a "before". He is considered a great game designer ( manager is more suited term for him ) because he is a great businessman. 

He seems to know what many consumers want ( even if they don't relalize it yet ).

What has to do Wii Music with Zelda Wii ?

They are currently working on it and I think Wii Music is a really interesting piece of software ( but I don't have try it yet ).

 



 “In the entertainment business, there are only heaven and hell, and nothing in between and as soon as our customers bore of our products, we will crash.”  Hiroshi Yamauchi

TAG:  Like a Yamauchi pimp slap delivered by Il Maelstrom; serving it up with style.

celine said:
bardicverse said:
celine said:
bardicverse said:

To be honest, as a game developer, I hope he IS disappointed with it so he learns a lesson from it. Maybe it will wake in him up from making novelty game ideas and bring him back to making a new, core-focused IP. How badass would it be to see Miyamoto break out the next brand new IP that is tantamount to the legends such as Mario, Donkey Kong and Zelda? And how much would that piss off all the Sony/MS fans?

 

He is a smart business man. All game designers should be.

 

true, I agree with you, but before he is a businessman, he is a game designer. There's a reason why Zelda games tend to fluctuate between young link and adult link. This is Miyamato's son, and he hates to see him grow up. Call it midlife crisis if you will, but Link is Miyamoto's kid, his soul. It's time to give link a brother in the Miyamoto clan

 

I don't think there is a "before". He is considered a great game designer ( manager is more suited term for him ) because he is a great businessman.

He seems to know what many consumers want ( even if they don't relalize it yet ).

What has to do Wii Music with Zelda Wii ?

They are currently working on it and I think Wii Music is a really interesting piece of software ( but I don't have try it yet ).

 

I think our language barrier is making you misunderstanding my point =)

 



Wii Music is going to sell very well. I don't see how it could possibly be a commercial mistake. The only mistake Miyamoto made is that if I run into him he will be receiving a knock on the head for bringing this out during this Christmas season when he should have been working on giving me Pikmin 3.



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