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Forums - General Discussion - No-God slogans on busses.

outlawauron on 23 October 2008
ManusJustus said:
outlawauron said:

You're wrong there, too. The Bible says pretty clearly that works will not get you into Heaven. So, if anyone truly thinks that giving to a charity and other good works will get them into Heaven, they need to read the Book more.

Ah, the irony.  The athiest whose knows Christianity.

And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

-Matthew 6:5

All that believed were together, and had all things in common; And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

Acts 2:44

And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.  And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.  Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

- Acts 4:32

Why you assume reward means salvation? There are other blessings. Read this.

John 14:6 (NIV):

Jesus answered "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." 

 

And the context of Matthew 6:5 is for Christians to pray to God in private to speak to God and not to appear religious. It's about the intent of what you do. A righteous intent is what the Bible says God rewards.



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konnichiwa on 23 October 2008

A: Tribute?! you steal mens souls! and make them your slaves!
B: Perhaps the same could be said of all religions.






ManusJustus on 23 October 2008
appolose said:
ManusJustus said:

Ah, the irony.  The athiest whose knows Christianity.

And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

-Matthew 6:5

All that believed were together, and had all things in common; And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

Acts 2:44

And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.  And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.  Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

- Acts 4:32

 

Wait, what do the last 2 passages have to do with them being rewarded for what they did?

Early Christians were required to give to charity and share their possessions with others.  Ananius (later on in Acts) doesnt give his land to Peter and is punished for it.

 



FaRmLaNd on 23 October 2008

The message is great. It doesn't matter what you do or don't believe in, as it has absolutely nothing to do with how you act.



Kasz216 on 23 October 2008
ManusJustus said:
Coca-Cola said:
Kasz216 said:

What study was that?

There is no doubt that religious people do more to better the world.

I havent looked the topic up, so thanks for the info. 

Do those statistics include liberals wanting to pay more taxes and support more aid programs?  I dont believe generousity indexes include such things.  Who helps a poor person out more, a Christian who gives them $50 and tries to get them to go to church, or someone who pushes for more taxes to pay for financial aid and job training programs for the poor?  I know from first hand experience that conservative Republicans are trying to shut down a local senior job training facility that teaches low income seniors how to use computers, while liberals are fighting for more tax money to support the program. 

Perhaps its a difference in method, but there is no doubt that Liberals do a lot more good than conservatives. 

And thats not to mention that, socially and economically speaking, that most conservatives have a economic self-benefit to give to charity because they believe they are doing so in exchange for goods in the afterlife.  When an ahtiest donates, they know there is no afterlife benefit, they are just helping others.  Is it really that generous to give to charity if you think you'll get a mansion in Heaven and eternal salvation for it?

So... rather then admit your wrong you want to hide behind some made up facts.

Not surprising since you made up facts to try and prove your point in the first place. (There was a study that shows liberals give more.)

Everyone pays taxes... and none of those social programs pushed by liberals has ever been shown to give any conclusive results.

Furthermore such programs are likely why liberals don't give more.  They see dealing with the poor as the governments job vs the communities... either that or they just don't like giving away money unless they know other people will.



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appolose on 23 October 2008
ManusJustus said:
appolose said:
ManusJustus said:

Ah, the irony.  The athiest whose knows Christianity.

And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

-Matthew 6:5

All that believed were together, and had all things in common; And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

Acts 2:44

And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.  And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.  Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

- Acts 4:32

 

Wait, what do the last 2 passages have to do with them being rewarded for what they did?

Early Christians were required to give to charity and share their possessions with others.  Ananius (later on in Acts) doesnt give his land to Peter and is punished for it.

 

 

They weren't required to give in those passages; it indicates they gave freely.  And  Ananius was punished because he was trying to make it appear as if he had given all the money had had gotten for the land, when he only gave some; he was being deceitful.



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Tispower1 on 23 October 2008

I have no problem with this personally. At least the government is allowing free speech. It's a shame no one is allowed to offend Islam in this country though haha.



Kasz216 on 23 October 2008
appolose said:
ManusJustus said:
appolose said:
ManusJustus said:

Ah, the irony.  The athiest whose knows Christianity.

And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

-Matthew 6:5

All that believed were together, and had all things in common; And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

Acts 2:44

And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.  And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.  Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

- Acts 4:32

 

Wait, what do the last 2 passages have to do with them being rewarded for what they did?

Early Christians were required to give to charity and share their possessions with others.  Ananius (later on in Acts) doesnt give his land to Peter and is punished for it.

 

 

They weren't required to give in those passages; it indicates they gave freely.  And  Ananius was punished because he was trying to make it appear as if he had given all the money had had gotten for the land, when he only gave some; he was being deceitful.

Well... in the commandments.  One of the less popular ones you're supposed to keep 1/4th.. or 1/10th or something of your field unharvested for the poor.  (God supports a flat tax!)

Also the poor are supposed to be able to walk into anyones field and eat all the food they can eat.

 



ManusJustus on 23 October 2008
appolose said: 

They weren't required to give in those passages; it indicates they gave freely.  And  Ananius was punished because he was trying to make it appear as if he had given all the money had had gotten for the land, when he only gave some; he was being deceitful.

They were required to give everything, which every Christian did.  Ananias was killed because he didnt want to give up all of the money he got from selling his land, which was required of him.

But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession, And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

Logic makes it clear that the lie was in what was required of Ananias, not what he volunteered to do.  This is similar to someone who cheats on their taxes, if you pay $2,000 when $4,000 is required, you are guilty of the same crime as Ananias.



Kasz216 on 23 October 2008
ManusJustus said:
appolose said: 

They weren't required to give in those passages; it indicates they gave freely.  And  Ananius was punished because he was trying to make it appear as if he had given all the money had had gotten for the land, when he only gave some; he was being deceitful.

They were required to give everything, which every Christian did.  Ananias was killed because he didnt want to give up all of the money he got from selling his land, which was required of him.

But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession, And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

Logic makes it clear that the lie was in what was required of Ananias, not what he volunteered to do.  This is similar to someone who cheats on their taxes, if you pay $2,000 when $4,000 is required, you are guilty of the same crime as Ananias.

 

That's great.   That's not what any biblical scholar reads it as however.

http://bible.cc/acts/5-2.htm

Probably becuase of Acts 5-4.

Just two lines below it

As long as it remained unsold, wasn't it your own? And after it was sold, wasn't the money at your disposal? So how could you have thought of doing what you did? You didn't lie only to men, but also to God!"

Peter states in fact that said land was his.  Said money was his.  The thing that got him killed was his own lie.  That he was donating the whole of the proceeds when he wasn't.