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Forums - Sony Discussion - I don't see MUCH momentum in PS3 sales even after the price cut

redspear on 23 July 2007
meowmints said:

1. PCs will never go that far, too messy to setup, too prone to errors, too many configurations. I am a computer engineer and I still don't like dealing with all those blue screens.


I haven't seen a blue screen in over 7 years on any PC. 1 laptop on work bluescreened all of the time but that was an issue with the chipset fan not working. Set up on a PC/Mac game is easy in fact most games have simplified pre-arranged settings for people who do not know much or super advanced settings for the brave or the technically literate who know what they like. Come to htink of it I haven't even seen a error in a longtime



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Bodhesatva on 23 July 2007
windbane said:
Bodhesatva said:
Xiru said:
LeroyBrown said:
Soriku said:
Hey, I care about Japan sales most of all. Why? 'Cause if PS3 is sucking in Japan (which is what's happening now) and Wii does good in Japan (now happening) then probably more Jap dev support (S-E, Namo, etc.)


I whole heartedly concur with this. Obviously it is personal opinion, but I really only care about Japanese developers and their franchises, to each their own but in my experiences Western developed games by and large only really seem to appeal to current trends/genres in gaming lacking any real staying power outside of niche groups in the long run.


I too would normally be worried but since the Wii doesn't have the technology to express game developers true imagination and creative talent, I wouldn't worry as much. As long as the PS3 does respectable across the world, Japanese developers will still make the big games for it. Look at Square Enix. If Nintendo had made the Wii even just a little less powerful than the 360, then Nintendo would own the whole world and there would be no 3rd party games for PS3/360. So as it stands now, Wii can sell all it wants but the technology used inside the console really does hurt any future prospects oh huge amazing games like FF13. I'm sure Square could bring FF14 to Wii, but why gives us a taste of heaven only to send us back to earth?


Interesting argument, Xiru. Can you please explain why platforms like the 3D0, CD-i, Neo Geo, and most important of all, the PC did not (or do not) see strong third party support despite the fact they were (or are) technological leaps and bounds ahead of their competition at the time?

If "fulfilling true imagination" is of such importance (if we can even agree that this argument has validity in the first place, which I'm not sure we can), why don't these developers abandon the inferior PS3 technology for high end PCs?


Didn't I just tell you in another thread that the PS3 has sold twice as much as those consoles combined?

The PC has great third party support. It's a US market, though, but in the US it gets great support. The Mac gets decent support as well.

Xiru, welcome to the forum and please stick around. I completely agree with your assessment.


I completely agree, that is precisely why these consoles were not supported! Which quite negates the concept that people will continue to pursue their "true imagination," even if it means making less money. This is precisely the same reason why people will stop supporting the PS3.

If this were about dreams and imagination, they would have supported the 3D0, correct? And yet they didn't because the install base was too small. Guess where I'm heading with this?

The PC absolutely has support -- I'm an avid PC gamer -- but it's much smaller support than the PS3, 360, or Wii recieves, and that support is slowly dwindling over the years. That's because... the high end PC install base is too small!

The PS3 is outnumbered 2.5:1 by the Wii already, and that number is still growing (it was 4:1 this month in the US, 5:1 in Canada, 6:1 Japan). It's like you're saying this to refute my points, windbane, but this is precisely my point too! It's rarely about "fulfilling true imagination," it's about making money. The 3D0 showed us that (as you pointed out), the CD-i showed us that (as you pointed out) the Neo Geo showed us that (as you pointed out) and the PC continues to see smaller and smaller support, precisely because the money isn't there. Not surprisingly, the PS3 is already following suit:

http://www.videogamesblogger.com/2007/06/25/sega-bandai-namco-and-capcom-shift-focus-from-psp-and-ps3-to-ds-and-wii.htm
http://www.vooks.net/modules.php?module=article&id=11906
http://www.totalvideogames.com/news/Capcom_Label_PS3__PSP_Underachieving_11864_3307_0.htm
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/ea-earnings-fall-q3-new/story.aspx?guid=%7BE8087A72-AFBA-4157-9EF4-EB4632B00A6F%7D
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/17/technology/17game.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
http://www.destructoid.com/take-2-completely-focused-on-ds-and-wii-strategy-33250.phtml
http://www.thetanooki.com/2007/07/14/activision-looking-to-focus-more-on-wii-development/

Relevant quotation from the last link: "To be perfectly frank, I don’t think it takes a rocket scientist to realize what’s going on with Wii and DS. I will tell you that very quickly we turned to both 2K and to Rockstar and said guys, we need a DS strategy and a Wii strategy and we are working on it. As we get into the next quarter and into budget season for 2008, everybody in this company is completely focused on it."

For those too lazy to read these links (and I have more, I just stopped because I assume this is enough), this is a list of the following companies:

EA
THQ
Capcom
Sega
Namco-Bandai
Square Enix
Take 2
Activision

Explicitly stating that they are either moving developmental resources away from the PS3, or towards the Wii, or in most cases, both. And guess what reasons they site as their reason? Poor sales. I don't understand how you can openly admit that the 3D0, CD-i, Neo Geo, Amiga, Sega Saturn, Sega Dreamcast and others all suffered from a lack of software because of their poor sales, but simultaneously seem to believe that the PS3 will magically be immune to this problem. I certainly don't think the PS3 is in as bad of shape as, say, the Dreamcast (Sony's not leaving any time soon), but it's probably lower than the PC (PC sees a fair share of great titles -- just as the Dreamcast did, to a lesser extent -- but its library of high end games is noticably smaller than a major console's would be) and definitely lower than the Gamecube (the PS3 is currently underselling the Gamecube, both in total sales and in marketshare), which also saw very little third party support. 

As a last note, that list of publishers above includes the 1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th, 10th, 11th, 13th, and 14th largest game publishers in the world. Of the 7 companies in the top 15 not on this list, 3 are Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony themselves, and another is Ubisoft, who has supported the Wii from the beginning. And keep in mind, these companies have all explicitly stated that they have shifted focus to the Wii: the remaining few (such as Konami) may have, even if they haven't stated it publicly.

 



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windbane on 23 July 2007

Whatever, Bodhesatva.

Until those companies release high-profile games on the Wii I'm not impressed.  The Wii is currently undergoing a major drought in games. 



totalwar23 on 23 July 2007
windbane said:

Whatever, Bodhesatva.

Until those companies release high-profile games on the Wii I'm not impressed.  The Wii is currently undergoing a major drought in games. 


whatever? now you're just digging a fanboy trench. How can you expect the companies that have JUST stated they are shifting resources to the Wii to just magically pump out games in an instant? 2008. And guess what, what kind of games the PS3 has received during this time? Ports from the 360. Even NGS. if you type in Wii games and compare that to PS3 games in Wikipedia, you would realize that there is a shift. you might dismiss all of them as being crappy games but that's pretty much how the original PS crush the N64.



NorthStar on 23 July 2007
Biggerboat said:

If it fails to outsell the supply restricted Wii even when it spikes the momentum of PS3 is almost irrelevant.


Comon man Twist it anyway you want there is absolutely no reason that the Wii should be supply restricted in 10 months thaey have not been able to make and ship 10-11 million Wii's? there is no component in the Wii that is in Short supply the machine has been out for 9 months and in that time they have only managed to produce around 6 million or so Wiii's (I subtracted the 2.5 million they had ready for launch). It seems to me that Nintendo might be "manufacturing" the supply problem. with that being said I really do not see a supply constraint here so much I live in San Antonio Tx and Wii's seem to be in supply but rarely do I see them actually on the floor. Game Stops and Wal marts are keeping them in there ware rooms. If I was Nintendo i would be pushing the Wii's out as fast as possible 1 great game could really swing the momentum in any direction for any console...(except for the 360 in Japan sadly....they will not buy an American system)

 



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windbane on 23 July 2007
totalwar23 said:
windbane said:

Whatever, Bodhesatva.

Until those companies release high-profile games on the Wii I'm not impressed. The Wii is currently undergoing a major drought in games.


whatever? now you're just digging a fanboy trench. How can you expect the companies that have JUST stated they are shifting resources to the Wii to just magically pump out games in an instant? 2008. And guess what, what kind of games the PS3 has received during this time? Ports from the 360. Even NGS. if you type in Wii games and compare that to PS3 games in Wikipedia, you would realize that there is a shift. you might dismiss all of them as being crappy games but that's pretty much how the original PS crush the N64.


We'll see.

His other argument was that those other consoles did not survive and that's indicated by poor sales. Clearly, the PS3 is selling better.

Ico Team game is 360 port? Katamari creator's new game is a 360 port? Burnout is a port to 360.

You can make broad statements if you want, but the examples are there. I'd like to point out, however, the if the PS3 is getting a lot of the same games that 360 gets and more, then that is good for combating the Wii.

Edit:  Also, it seems you are telling me to wait for games, and yet that's what people keep saying for the PS3.  There are already more quality games to play on the PS3 and a lot of great games are coming out soon. 



Bodhesatva on 23 July 2007
windbane said:
totalwar23 said:
windbane said:

Whatever, Bodhesatva.

Until those companies release high-profile games on the Wii I'm not impressed. The Wii is currently undergoing a major drought in games.


whatever? now you're just digging a fanboy trench. How can you expect the companies that have JUST stated they are shifting resources to the Wii to just magically pump out games in an instant? 2008. And guess what, what kind of games the PS3 has received during this time? Ports from the 360. Even NGS. if you type in Wii games and compare that to PS3 games in Wikipedia, you would realize that there is a shift. you might dismiss all of them as being crappy games but that's pretty much how the original PS crush the N64.


We'll see.

His other argument was that those other consoles did not survive and that's indicated by poor sales. Clearly, the PS3 is selling better.

Ico Team game is 360 port? Katamari creator's new game is a 360 port? Burnout is a port to 360.

You can make broad statements if you want, but the examples are there. I'd like to point out, however, the if the PS3 is getting a lot of the same games that 360 gets and more, then that is good for combating the Wii.

Edit: Also, it seems you are telling me to wait for games, and yet that's what people keep saying for the PS3. There are already more quality games to play on the PS3 and a lot of great games are coming out soon.


It's not selling as well as the Gamecube, and probably not selling as well as high end PCs. Rather than saying that every single one of these consoles was exactly alike (they aren't) and that they all suffered the exact same fate (they didn't, as the Gamecube in particular shows best), the goal was to show a much more general issue: systems that don't sell particularly well don't get a great deal of support from third parties. That is true for every example I've given. Some of the examples sold better than the PS3, some worse -- all of them got poor third party support. If you can name one system that got less than 20 percent market share in any given generation that did recieve major third party support, I'd be interested to know. 

Again, I certainly don't expect the PS3 to suffer the 3D0's fate based on sales (complete rejection), but Xbox, Gamecube or PC-esque support is quite likely down the road, as history has shown that systems with 15-20 percent market share recieve that level of support. The PS3 will get its share of games, sure, but not nearly as many as it would if it were a market leader. 

I'm just rather flabbergasted by your response, Windbane. I lay out unanimous historical data (every single console that has sold as poorly as the PS3 has recieved mediocre third party support) and I show specific, direct statements from nearly all the major third party software developers, and your response is simply "whatever." Not a particularly convincing argument, Windbane, nor is it particularly cordial.



http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a324/Arkives/Disccopy.jpg%5B/IMG%5D">http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a324/Arkives/Disccopy.jpg%5B/IMG%5D">

windbane on 23 July 2007
Bodhesatva said:
windbane said:
totalwar23 said:
windbane said:

Whatever, Bodhesatva.

Until those companies release high-profile games on the Wii I'm not impressed. The Wii is currently undergoing a major drought in games.


whatever? now you're just digging a fanboy trench. How can you expect the companies that have JUST stated they are shifting resources to the Wii to just magically pump out games in an instant? 2008. And guess what, what kind of games the PS3 has received during this time? Ports from the 360. Even NGS. if you type in Wii games and compare that to PS3 games in Wikipedia, you would realize that there is a shift. you might dismiss all of them as being crappy games but that's pretty much how the original PS crush the N64.


We'll see.

His other argument was that those other consoles did not survive and that's indicated by poor sales. Clearly, the PS3 is selling better.

Ico Team game is 360 port? Katamari creator's new game is a 360 port? Burnout is a port to 360.

You can make broad statements if you want, but the examples are there. I'd like to point out, however, the if the PS3 is getting a lot of the same games that 360 gets and more, then that is good for combating the Wii.

Edit: Also, it seems you are telling me to wait for games, and yet that's what people keep saying for the PS3. There are already more quality games to play on the PS3 and a lot of great games are coming out soon.


It's not selling as well as the Gamecube, and probably not selling as well as high end PCs. Rather than saying that every single one of these consoles was exactly alike (they aren't) and that they all suffered the exact same fate (they didn't, as the Gamecube in particular shows best), the goal was to show a much more general issue: systems that don't sell particularly well don't get a great deal of support from third parties. That is true for every example I've given. Some of the examples sold better than the PS3, some worse -- all of them got poor third party support. If you can name one system that got less than 20 percent market share in any given generation that did recieve major third party support, I'd be interested to know.

Again, I certainly don't expect the PS3 to suffer the 3D0's fate based on sales (complete rejection), but Xbox, Gamecube or PC-esque support is quite likely down the road, as history has shown that systems with 15-20 percent market share recieve that level of support. The PS3 will get its share of games, sure, but not nearly as many as it would if it were a market leader.

I'm just rather flabbergasted by your response, Windbane. I lay out unanimous historical data (every single console that has sold as poorly as the PS3 has recieved mediocre third party support) and I show specific, direct statements from nearly all the major third party software developers, and your response is simply "whatever." Not a particularly convincing argument, Windbane, nor is it particularly cordial.


I must have missed that historical evidence.  The PS3 has great third party support right now, far better than the Gamecube had.  This is not a similar situation to any of those previous consoles, imo.  I'm not trying to be mean or cordial, I'm disagreeing with you.

I highly doubt high-end PCs are selling better than the PS3, btw... 



HappySqurriel on 23 July 2007
windbane said:

I must have missed that historical evidence.  The PS3 has great third party support right now, far better than the Gamecube had.  This is not a similar situation to any of those previous consoles, imo.  I'm not trying to be mean or cordial, I'm disagreeing with you.

I highly doubt high-end PCs are selling better than the PS3, btw... 


You missed something ...

"At the moment the PS3 has better third party support than the Gamecube had."

After the PS3 has been on the market for a full year and has sold worse than the Gamecube, doesn't have a single third party game which has sold more than 1,000,000 units worldwide (most of which sold far below expectations), and has been outsold 3 to 1 by the Wii how many third parties will be itching to support the PS3?

 

 



totalwar23 on 23 July 2007
windbane said:
totalwar23 said:
windbane said:

Whatever, Bodhesatva.

Until those companies release high-profile games on the Wii I'm not impressed. The Wii is currently undergoing a major drought in games.


whatever? now you're just digging a fanboy trench. How can you expect the companies that have JUST stated they are shifting resources to the Wii to just magically pump out games in an instant? 2008. And guess what, what kind of games the PS3 has received during this time? Ports from the 360. Even NGS. if you type in Wii games and compare that to PS3 games in Wikipedia, you would realize that there is a shift. you might dismiss all of them as being crappy games but that's pretty much how the original PS crush the N64.


We'll see.

His other argument was that those other consoles did not survive and that's indicated by poor sales. Clearly, the PS3 is selling better.

Ico Team game is 360 port? Katamari creator's new game is a 360 port? Burnout is a port to 360.

You can make broad statements if you want, but the examples are there. I'd like to point out, however, the if the PS3 is getting a lot of the same games that 360 gets and more, then that is good for combating the Wii.

Edit:  Also, it seems you are telling me to wait for games, and yet that's what people keep saying for the PS3.  There are already more quality games to play on the PS3 and a lot of great games are coming out soon. 

 

Team Ico game, Katamari creator game, Burnout? I said the games that have been released now. I tried to do a quick search the Team Ico game is an unknown project. What is the PS3 getting now? Rainbow Six Vegas, Dirt and other stuff that is being outsold by its 360 counterpart. You can always find a couple of games which you can say see-the PS3 is not just getting ports from the 360 but right now, in its first year of launch, along with the Wii, is pretty much what its going to get. The problem for the PS3 right now is that it is being outsold by the Wii. Yes, I'm well aware that the PS3 is selling better than the 3DO, but so did the N64 and the Gamecube and while those consoles survive, Nintendo lost dominance and developers shifted to the Playstation. This generation, we will see developers shifting resources from the Playstation to the Wii. That's pretty much Bodhesatva's point but I don't want to speak for him. He could be saying the PS3 will die off and I misunderstood him.