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Forums - Sony Discussion - BluRay struggling to take off [Article]

Anyone with half a brain predicted years ago that the winner of the "format wars" would shape up to be the next LaserDisc in terms of adoption. Just because execs want to foist a new format on us doesn't mean that it'll always supplant the old one.



"'Casual games' are something the 'Game Industry' invented to explain away the Wii success instead of actually listening or looking at what Nintendo did. There is no 'casual strategy' from Nintendo. 'Accessible strategy', yes, but ‘casual gamers’ is just the 'Game Industry''s polite way of saying what they feel: 'retarded gamers'."

 -Sean Malstrom

 

 

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makingmusic476 said:
shams said:

"The shift from VHS to DVD a decade ago offered tangible benefits such as significantly improved picture quality and the ability to skip instantly to any scene of the film. However, Blu-ray's improvements over DVD are less pronounced and largely limited to a noticeable but far from extreme increase in picture quality, provided a big screen HDTV is used."

 

I've always disliked this line of reasoning.  While yes, there is less of an incentive to upgrade to Blu-Ray from DVD like there was to upgrade to DVD from VHS, it's also much EASIER to ugprade to Blu-Ray from DVD than it was going to DVD from VHS.

When you buy a Blu-Ray player, all your DVDs will play in the machine, and they'll all look better because of it, due to upscaling.  When you bought a DVD player back in 1998, it made all your VHS tapes obsolete, unless you kept both players around (which many people did).  It also did nothing to increase the quality of the movies you already owned.

In a few years, standalone Blu-Ray players will have dropped to or past the $100 mark.  At this point in time, what will keep people from buying a Blu-Ray player over a regular old DVD player?  Hell, manufacturers could just advertise it as a DVD player, and the few uninformed consumers left would never be the wiser.

Blu-Ray drives will probably end up like DVD drives for PCs today.  They can play practically everything, including obscure formats like DVD-Ram, but that's just about all they make, because it's cheaper for manufacturers to focus on 1-2 SKUs.  That's just what you buy.  You don't track down a CD drive for your PC if you have no interest in playing DVDs.  You just buy the DVD drive.

I just want to point out that's a big reason of why i'm NOT buying a blu-ray player.

at the VHS to DVD transition i had a sense of urgency.  i said to myself, "why the hell am i putting money into this VHS when it's going to be obsolete in 2 years and i'll just have to re-buy as a dvd??  i might as well just get the dvd now and be done with it."

with the DVD to BRD transition i have no urgency.  i say to myself, "whatever, the dvd is cheaper and if i ever get a blu ray player this dvd will play.  besides, more pixels won't make this particular movie any better (<--assumes i'm buying something other then the summer blockbusters: batman, ironman, harry potter, ect.) so i'm just going to wait for a price drop before i spend my money"

so yeah - BC is a great bullet point but it works against the format just as much as it works for the format.

 



kitler53 said:

I just want to point out that's a big reason of why i'm NOT buying a blu-ray player.

at the VHS to DVD transition i had a sense of urgency.  i said to myself, "why the hell am i putting money into this VHS when it's going to be obsolete in 2 years and i'll just have to re-buy as a dvd??  i might as well just get the dvd now and be done with it."

with the DVD to BRD transition i have no urgency.  i say to myself, "whatever, the dvd is cheaper and if i ever get a blu ray player this dvd will play.  besides, more pixels won't make this particular movie any better (<--assumes i'm buying something other then the summer blockbusters: batman, ironman, harry potter, ect.) so i'm just going to wait for a price drop before i spend my money"

so yeah - BC is a great bullet point but it works against the format just as much as it works for the format.

 

 

Wow... great point.  I hadn't even thought of that, but I have to admit that worrying about investing too long in an "obsolete" technology has often pushed me to "upgrade".  Take away the obsoletion factor, and I can imagine that would work against a new technology.

 

 



The sound on a good Blu-ray is also significantly better than that available on DVD.

Don't really understand why that rarely gets mentioned.

Maybe Australians couldn't give a XXXX about sound quality.



PSN - hanafuda

Br I think will eventually take hold, but it faces some big challenges IMHO:

1) it is HD format. Therefore, unless you are pretty silly, unless you already have an HD TV you can't stroll into a store and just buy a BR player - you need to invest in an HD TV which is a big additional expense. So, PS3 owners aside, the actual market for BR is currently smaller than it might seem right now IMHO and linked to HD TV owners at the hip

2) If you buy a PS3 and are hooking it up to an SD TV then again, like 1) above, I don't see why you'd buy a BR movie. You buy DVD and play that on PS3 instead.

3) BR hasn't (unless I'm missing something) had a holiday season yet as the only HD format, so this coming holiday is the first real chance it has for a big boost, with Iron Man, Dark Knight, etc. giving extra incentive for people to move to HD for TV / Movies

4) I'd be willing to bet PS3 has cannibalized BR standalone player sales. For me PS2 added a DVD to my kids room, but now our expensive PS3 is in the living room under our expensive HD TV and I see no reason currently to buy a standalone player to put next to it (although at a future point I might I suppose)

5) the current global economy is not the ideal situation to be pushing people to upgrade their TV and players within - BR is going to see some serious slowdown in adoption due to this I believe

Of course as BR takes of in PCs, portables, etc. as HD TV transmissions increase, and HD TV penetration increases then BR will get a boost over DVD I believe (even allowing for DVD upscalers).



Try to be reasonable... its easier than you think...

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makingmusic476 said:

You did read the next three paragraphs in my post, right?  Things are expensive now, but they won't remain that way.

When you buy a Blu-Ray player, all your DVDs will play in the machine, and they'll all look better because of it, due to up scaling.  When you bought a DVD player back in 1998, it made all your VHS tapes obsolete, unless you kept both players around (which many people did).  It also did nothing to increase the quality of the movies you already owned.

That only helps ease a transition, it's still not much of a reason to actually take the plunge. And I can't speak for everyone, but there were about a half-dozen reasons my family went from VHS to DVD, and picture and audio quality weren’t one of them. Backwards compatibility on a Blu-Ray only helps to sell the player, it still doesn't do much to convince to buy the actual discs to go with it.

In a few years, standalone Blu-Ray players will have dropped to or past the $100 mark.  At this point in time, what will keep people from buying a Blu-Ray player over a regular old DVD player?  Hell, manufacturers could just advertise it as a DVD player, and the few uninformed consumers left would never be the wiser.

$100 for a stand-alone DVD player is the United States is extremely high unless it's a good upscale player, which most people don't have much interest in either. And why should we expect uniformed consumers to Blu-Ray movies if they're not even sure they own a Blu-Ray player? You're assuming the only hurdle Blu-Ray has to overcome is price.

In an age where a lot of people are contempt with watching blurry YouTube videos on small computer screens, it should be obvious that convenience is huge selling point. It's why people buy iPods and iPhones despite being "expensive" compared to other MP3's players and phones with better hardware. The convenience of the iPod's dial or the iPhones touch screen are of a greater value to consumers then high quality hardware without these conveniences.

Blu-Ray drives will probably end up like DVD drives for PCs today.  They can play practically everything, including obscure formats like DVD-Ram, but that's just about all they make, because it's cheaper for manufacturers to focus on 1-2 SKUs.  That's just what you buy.  You don't track down a CD drive for your PC if you have no interest in playing DVDs.  You just buy the DVD drive.

DVD drives became standard in PC's because it was the dominating format. Everyone wanted it, they were in high demand, and it became impractical to not include them. Five years ago, when DVD was just very popular, I helped to order my sister's old laptop and we had to pay extra for a combo DVD/CD-Rom drive, the default choice was CD-Rom.

Computer companies didn't include DVD ROMs to push the format, they included them to push their computers. It was another popular feature that made computers more appealing. Now you can play DVD's on your computer in addition to a dozens of other things. I find it unlikely many companies will make Blu-Ray drives standard unless there's a huge demand for it. It’s a hard to justify including an HD movie player on a small laptop screen where the benefit is even less noticeable.

Since Blu-Ray it just an extension of DVD, it'll likely always have a place on the market since it doesn't take much effort of change to accommodate both. But I can't see it becoming the format of choice for the mainstream public unless companies actually force it on them. In a way, that's a big reason why it's even sustainable now. If Sony hadn't used the PlayStation brand to carry Blu-Ray, there would probably 15 million less Blu-Ray players in homes right now.



DVD and Blu-Ray also have to compete with something else that didn't exist when DVD got released: movie piracy. I don't have figures but I wouldn't be surprised if piracy had a huge impact on DVD sales.



How many cups of darkness have I drank over the years? Even I don't know...

 

Godot said:
DVD and Blu-Ray also have to compete with something else that didn't exist when DVD got released: movie piracy. I don't have figures but I wouldn't be surprised if piracy had a huge impact on DVD sales.

Movie Piracy existed during the VHS era, it was just limited almost entirely to people selling bootleg tapes. It's the reason you'd always see a damn warning from the FBI when you popped in a movie. =P

Piracy has been an issue for a while, but you'd be right in suggesting the proliferation of the Internet has caused it to be far more widespread then it was before.

There are also legal avenues to compete with in the digital realm like iTunes or Netflix's instant play. Both of which are pushing for the living room by selling boxes for your TV that play movies you get over the internet.

 



halil23 said:
Have you guys forgot that shams is a Sony hater!

France & Australia make up half of the world!!!!
Your thread = epic fail.

Nice one. I must have written that article hey.

Oh - you do remember that personal attacks are not allowed, and that I'm a mod?

Avoid the personal attacks, or suffer the consequences.



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hanafuda said:
The sound on a good Blu-ray is also significantly better than that available on DVD.

Don't really understand why that rarely gets mentioned.

Maybe Australians couldn't give a XXXX about sound quality.

I really doubt this is a selling point. It must be a tiny percentage of people who have the right equipment hooked up to take maximum advantage of DVD quality sound - let alone BluRay quality sound.

The people in my house are too lazy(?) to even turn on the stereo - just one remote click - when watching a movie. They are more than happy to settle for movie sound from the TV (rather then get full surround) - they just don't care.

Its this same attitude that makes me think BluRay will struggle to convince the mass market that its worth upgrading to. DVD had significant "ease of use" advantages over VHS - BluRay has none over DVD.

When BluRay has become the standard, people will happily blindly use it - as long as it works the same as the old DVD player did.



Gesta Non Verba

Nocturnal is helping companies get cheaper game ratings in Australia:

Game Assessment website

Wii code: 2263 4706 2910 1099