By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming Discussion - Why are so many American games so up in arms against piracy?

c0rd said:
hsrob said:

Like i said i at do partly understand it in developing countries, but when you are paying 60 cents for a copy of a game, or windows or whatever you like, that is more than leveling the playing field.  I'm on a Chinese salary and i could buy the whole Wii collection on the average monthly salary here (and i'm in poor China). 

Look, are there worse kinds of evil in the world, sure, but who can blame software companies for trying to stop it because there is no way they can ever compete with 60 cents per game.

Hrmm, okay then. I did notice your country listed as China, but still wasn't sure.

I'm obviously not against software companies being against piracy, I just feel that the products need to be cheaper where people simply cannot afford it - like, somehow scaled to the economy. Of course, this is harder to pull off than it sounds, but until we can find a better system that works, the widespread piracy in developing countries isn't going anywhere.

 

That would be great, but not only is it really hard to do, it would rarely ever work.  Companies tend to price their products based on what it costs to produce their products and make a profit for future investment.  Most companies that try to price their products based on a desire to simply meet a specific price point must:

1. Have a big cash reserve to survive that product's sales life (usually this is called preditory pricing as it's designed to force competitors out of the market)

2. Decide they're not in it for the profit and find a government or "angel" to fund their activity.  I have no problem with the latter, and I have a big problem with the former.



Around the Network
bdbdbd said:
Onyxmeth said:
HappySqurriel said:
DTG said:
pirating a psp is a much more difficult task then pirating a ds. With that said why is piracy on the psp so much more extensive and detrimental than on the ds?

 

The PSP is considered easier because all you need to pirate games on the PSP can be inexpensively bought at any store that sells the system ... The DS is as easy to pirate but (from my understanding) you have to buy a micro-sd adapter card from a questionable website.

I don't think that's really the case. Pirating the PSP involves downloading fimware consistently and creating a hybrid contraption out of a Pro Duo and a PSP battery. You can risk bricking your PSP if unsuccessful. Pirating the DS is a matte of purchasing a card that plugs into either of the two slots and dag and drop games into it's root file. I don't think PSP games are piated more oftenly than DS games. I think the DS just reaches into many more demographics that don't typically pirate, which keeps it's sales healthy. Notice how the games that reach farthest from technophiles in terms of interest also happen to be some of the best selling. The problem with the PSP is, it was marketed directly to the kinds of people that are knowledgable enough to pirate the games, while the DS marketed to those same people, plus countless other age groups.

To those that condemn video game piracy but don't have a problem pirating other industies, please quit being hypocrites. There is no right industry to pirate or wrong one. It should be either pirating itself is right or wrong.

 

 

Actually, question isn't how they pirate, but what they pirate. From my own observations, it seems that the thing that's driving PSP sales in Nintendo games, since it seems that people pirate NES and SNES for PSP and play them with emulator. Pirating a PSP game isn't that easy as pirating an old game from Nintendo system. This is just my own observation, so it may not be the in larger scale.

 

And, yes, i agree about the technophile part.

Actually the PSP game and emulator would be roughly the same process if the roms were preloaded onto the emulator otherwise the emulator would be more difficult. The PSP game should never be more difficult to accomplish. It's just a matter of making sure you keep up with firmware updates, but that is a given even with legitimate PSP games.

 



Tag: Became a freaking mod and a complete douche, coincidentally, at the same time.



Hawk said:

Mendicate Bias said:

ChichiriMuyo and c0rd both made the points I wanted to make.

1. The people who pirate, especially in 3rd world countries were never going to buy the product in the first place.

I of course love this excuse.  "Because I could never afford it, it should just be given to me.I think I should be given a Ferrarri because I'd never be able to afford one in my life.  Yeah, thats the ticket.

2. Digital theft is not the same as physical because the original owner is not losing anything from the digital copying of the product.

Oh yes, and this too.  Ok then, everyone in life that is not able to afford something, should be able to have it as long as it is digital.  Lets encourage people to be able to not earn what they want.  Let there be nothing for people to aspire to try and earn in life.  Let them use their time on stolen software as opposed to being productive and working towards being able to earn what they have.  Yeah, those that can't afford things should stay in a situation that they can't and cost those that earn their keep by increasing what they pay, because as weird as it is, developers and publishers need to earn money for a living.

If companies cared about pirating in 3rd world countries then they should bring the prices of their products down to a reasonable level for their consumers. When a new game costs the same as the fathers weekly salary then you can bet pirating is going to occur.

I frankly don't care if a 8 year old kid is having fun playing a pirated copy of spore in an internet cafe somewhere in Bagdhad, it doesn't effect anyone. The creators of the game would never have seen a penny from this kid because he cant afford the game at full retail price. As long as he's not physicaly hurting the owners then why not let him have his fun.

Oh yeah, and lets especially teach the young kids that they get whatever they want and don't have to work for it.  We all need a generation of people who don't work towards making their life, or life in general, better. All because they were taught they don't have to, they can have what they want without working for it. 

Some of you need to stop looking at things in black and white and realise there are shades of gray.

I really do not think that piracy is the worst thing in the world.  Nor do I claim to have never have owned a pirated piece of software.  Though, it has been rare and few.  But, what gets me is people that make excuses for it.  People who say it's ok, or even that it helps the industry.

 

Your trying to equate playing a pirated game to being lazy in life and stealing a ferrari. The publishers of the game will not see a single cent from the kid, you can twist it and turn it however you like but they are not losing anything. If that kid decided he wants an ipod and steals it thats different because the people at the retail outlet are directly affected.

You can sit in your house with your hi-speed internet and your plasma tv acting all high and mighty but if you didn't have enough money to pay for a single game for your kid because it costs twice your weekly salary but your kid can get it online for free and you know no one will be hurt or effected in any way, will you deny your child that small amount of joy.

Go live in a third world country before you pass judgments on others.

 



                                           

                      The definitive evidence that video games turn people into mass murderers

Mendicate Bias said:
Hawk said:

Mendicate Bias said:

ChichiriMuyo and c0rd both made the points I wanted to make.

1. The people who pirate, especially in 3rd world countries were never going to buy the product in the first place.

I of course love this excuse.  "Because I could never afford it, it should just be given to me.I think I should be given a Ferrarri because I'd never be able to afford one in my life.  Yeah, thats the ticket.

2. Digital theft is not the same as physical because the original owner is not losing anything from the digital copying of the product.

Oh yes, and this too.  Ok then, everyone in life that is not able to afford something, should be able to have it as long as it is digital.  Lets encourage people to be able to not earn what they want.  Let there be nothing for people to aspire to try and earn in life.  Let them use their time on stolen software as opposed to being productive and working towards being able to earn what they have.  Yeah, those that can't afford things should stay in a situation that they can't and cost those that earn their keep by increasing what they pay, because as weird as it is, developers and publishers need to earn money for a living.

If companies cared about pirating in 3rd world countries then they should bring the prices of their products down to a reasonable level for their consumers. When a new game costs the same as the fathers weekly salary then you can bet pirating is going to occur.

I frankly don't care if a 8 year old kid is having fun playing a pirated copy of spore in an internet cafe somewhere in Bagdhad, it doesn't effect anyone. The creators of the game would never have seen a penny from this kid because he cant afford the game at full retail price. As long as he's not physicaly hurting the owners then why not let him have his fun.

Oh yeah, and lets especially teach the young kids that they get whatever they want and don't have to work for it.  We all need a generation of people who don't work towards making their life, or life in general, better. All because they were taught they don't have to, they can have what they want without working for it. 

Some of you need to stop looking at things in black and white and realise there are shades of gray.

I really do not think that piracy is the worst thing in the world.  Nor do I claim to have never have owned a pirated piece of software.  Though, it has been rare and few.  But, what gets me is people that make excuses for it.  People who say it's ok, or even that it helps the industry.

 

Your trying to equate playing a pirated game to being lazy in life and stealing a ferrari. The publishers of the game will not see a single cent from the kid, you can twist it and turn it however you like but they are not losing anything. If that kid decided he wants an ipod and steals it thats different because the people at the retail outlet are directly affected.

You can sit in your house with your hi-speed internet and your plasma tv acting all high and mighty but if you didn't have enough money to pay for a single game for your kid because it costs twice your weekly salary but your kid can get it online for free and you know no one will be hurt or effected in any way, will you deny your child that small amount of joy.

Go live in a third world country before you pass judgments on others.

 

 

That's just it. You are completely wrong in that statement. Its a ripple effect. Just as the store is hurt as the loss builds up as more items are stolen, so to is the game dev or music writer. Eventually the losses get to the point where the publisher or development house can't afford 15 programmers and decide to fire a couple. Then those families are f'ed until they can find new work.

You are just being naive. Any money lost in large enough amounts affects everyone; and first to go are those that need those jobs and that income the most.

 

EDIT: Spend 2yrs making something with your own investment and then watch 1/3rd of people just walk up and take it for free before you pass judgement.

Being poor doesn't mean you should get anything but education and medicine for free. A game is far from a life necessity.



@Hawk: I had a real big response, but decided it wasn't really worth it. Basically, the whole piracy=bad is all under the premise that capitalism is fair, when I don't think it is. Piracy just evens the playing field a bit. If one worked real hard all their life, maybe they do deserve a Ferrarri. As long as it can be copy + pasted into their garage...

@crumas2: Sorry... I'm having trouble understanding that response. What makes the pirates capable of selling their goods when the company can't? I'm no business expert, so if I'm missing something obvious let me know.



Around the Network

I have a lot of difficulty believing that people wouldn't pay to play the games if piracy became impossible ... One of the main reasons for this is that I have had several friends who rarely paid for games who bought World of Warcraft and/or other MMO games because it was impossible to steal those games.

...

At the same time, I do think there is an argument for developers changing their business model in order to limit piracy. One of my thoughts is for developers to return to a shareware/episodic content business model where you give away the initial episode of a game with limited or no online gameplay and then you sell additional episodes and/or gameplay modes for a small fee. Personally, I don't have a problem with this model until developers start to gouge people with excessive fees ... for example, $5 to $10 to get a multiplayer mode with 5 to 10 maps is acceptable whereas $5 for horse armor is insane.



superchunk said:
Mendicate Bias said:
Hawk said:
 

 

That's just it. You are completely wrong in that statement. Its a ripple effect. Just as the store is hurt as the loss builds up as more items are stolen, so to is the game dev or music writer. Eventually the losses get to the point where the publisher or development house can't afford 15 programmers and decide to fire a couple. Then those families are f'ed until they can find new work.

You are just being naive. Any money lost in large enough amounts affects everyone; and first to go are those that need those jobs and that income the most.

 

EDIT: Spend 2yrs making something with your own investment and then watch 1/3rd of people just walk up and take it for free before you pass judgement.

Being poor doesn't mean you should get anything but education and medicine for free. A game is far from a life necessity.

You missed the whole point I'm trying to make, the publishers aren't losing anything because even if that particular consumer wanted to they couldn't afford the game. Yes piracy sucks and everyone should buy their products, but prices should also be scaled accordingly. Scaling software prices is a synch when compared to hardware (although consoles are a different story).

Also thats ignoring countries like Iran who don't even get legitimate copies of games sent to them and have to pirate games if they want to play them.

If I made an entertainment product and was selling it in both America and Iran then I would adjust my prices accordingly for both countries and offer the consumer incentives for not pirating otherwise I would be foolish not to expect getting pirated.

Like I said before stop looking at it in black and white and pay attention to the shades of grey

 



                                           

                      The definitive evidence that video games turn people into mass murderers

HappySqurriel said:

I have a lot of difficulty believing that people wouldn't pay to play the games if piracy became impossible ... One of the main reasons for this is that I have had several friends who rarely paid for games who bought World of Warcraft and/or other MMO games because it was impossible to steal those games.

Mainly because it isn't true. Anyone who can definitely afford a product, yet pirates it anyway is in the catagory of a "lost potential customer." The people denying that aren't being very reasonable.



crumas2 said:
bardicverse said:

Well, to put it in perspective, let me break it down like this -

A publisher who has paid a development team to make a game will not give the developer a penny more until their investment is recouped and a certain profit point is made.

If the game only recoups the publisher costs, but doesn't make it to the profit point, the developer gets no more money.

The developer then has to do research and development with whatever money they have remaining in their company account, create a demo, pitch a game to the publisher to go through the routine all over again.

If the publisher doesn't make enough money to cover their investment costs, they consider the game a failure. Enough of these failures from a developer will make them not want to work with that developer any longer.

If there are no publishers for the developer to acquire money from for a new game, the development company dies.

If development teams die like this, the amount of new games available become fewer.

So by buying new games, you are supporting the gaming industry and future games.

If you pirate games, you are part of the disease that is killing off studios.

Remember, 2 wrongs do not make a right, and just because other people are doing it doesn't mean that its okay for you too.

It'd be funny to have people caught pirating given to the developers of the game they pirated. Would make for some realistic textures for blood and entrails.

Well said. You didn't mention the human side of it... when development companies default it means the employees no longer have jobs. Yes, they can try to find other jobs, but the number of developers will dwindle and the jobs will become fewer as piracy steals more of the revenue.

 

Thanks. I think the whole concept of studios shutting down is a human enough element for me. As an indie dev, the thought of not being able to make games anymore is a fate worse than death. Of course, when any company shuts down, people lose jobs. Even as is, the industry is a super tough field to get a job in, unless you're a veteran like Carmack or Molyneaux

 



Mendicate Bias said:
superchunk said:
Mendicate Bias said:
Hawk said:

 

That's just it. You are completely wrong in that statement. Its a ripple effect. Just as the store is hurt as the loss builds up as more items are stolen, so to is the game dev or music writer. Eventually the losses get to the point where the publisher or development house can't afford 15 programmers and decide to fire a couple. Then those families are f'ed until they can find new work.

You are just being naive. Any money lost in large enough amounts affects everyone; and first to go are those that need those jobs and that income the most.

 

EDIT: Spend 2yrs making something with your own investment and then watch 1/3rd of people just walk up and take it for free before you pass judgement.

Being poor doesn't mean you should get anything but education and medicine for free. A game is far from a life necessity.

You missed the whole point I'm trying to make, the publishers aren't losing anything because even if that particular consumer wanted to they couldn't afford the game. Yes piracy sucks and everyone should buy their products, but prices should also be scaled accordingly. Scaling software prices is a synch when compared to hardware (although consoles are a different story).

Also thats ignoring countries like Iran who don't even get legitimate copies of games sent to them and have to pirate games if they want to play them.

If I made an entertainment product and was selling it in both America and Iran then I would adjust my prices accordingly for both countries and offer the consumer incentives for not pirating otherwise I would be foolish not to expect getting pirated.

Like I said before stop looking at it in black and white and pay attention to the shades of grey

 

   You are not a parent I see.  I love my children dearly, and I would love to give them absolutely everything they want.  And, I almost can.  For a two year old anyway  8).  But that would be completely irresponsible of me, I have a hard time doing it, but I temper it, and keep my self from buying my son every toy and piece of candy he wants, when he wants it.  If I did, what results as they grow up, is a spoiled brat who expects everyone else to do everything for them.  They learn to expect to just get something because they want it, and to not have to work for it.  They expect to be a parasite on others.  And so, if I did give my kids everything they wanted, and taught them to take everything they wanted, I would have robbed them of their potential to be self sufficent and be productive for themselves, their family, and possibly community.

   I think the encouraging of people in third world countries to steal software all they want, robs them of their potential to do something more.  Instead of wasting time (video games are a LUXURY) on stolen software, that you didn't even support the people who made it, you could do something more productive. Rather than creating this complete pit hole of time.

   And video games are a LUXURY.  I have completely different views when someone doesn't have food, or shelter, and doesn't have the opportunity to earn it, or the opportunity to immediately get it when needed.

EDIT:  Oh, and because I have a plasma TV, does not in anyway make the truth somehow automatically wrong.

And as much as you don't believe it, piracy does hurt the industry.  Someone who is given the feeling that piracy is ok, could pirate 1000 games they never would have paid for.  Very true.  But, if they realized they need to earn what they have, and spent that time doing that, then they could have paid and litimately owned 100 games they paid for.  So they may have not hurt the industry by removing the 1000 games they stole from making profit, but they certainly stole from the industry.



Tag: Hawk - Reluctant Dark Messiah (provided by fkusumot)