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Forums - Microsoft - Mass Effect or what All next gen RPGs Should Strive to Be...

All RPGs should be themselves. Why should an RPG mimic another?



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Andir - I have no idea. Thats why many have a problem with JRPGs :)



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

I love how you can interrupt people when they're talking in this game. You used to have to listen to NPCs argue for 20 minutes, but now you can immediately select your conversation option and go "SHUT UP WE'RE GOING LEFT!!!"

Have to get this game some day when I'm rich. =P



And just think...That answer will lead to a moral question, and possibly a trap when you go left too quickly :-p

Again, this WILL be one of the best RPGs in quite some time. Heck, it might get near GOTY honors.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

Fortunately there's a lot of great WRPG's on PC still that I never played and they all take me many many months to play so I won't feel like I'm missing much here, but ME will definitely be one of the first games I get if I ever get a 360.



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Thats good that Mass Effect has some positive feedback...and this is a cool and good exclusive to the system....i really do want to play this game!!!!!



I've been following this game since E3 last year, so I really hope it lives up to all of the hype. The graphics are beautiful and the story seems really interesting so far, I hope it lives up to the hype. It's definitely on my buy list along with Bioshock and Halo.



Currently Playing:  Saints Row 2 | Battlefield 2 | Company of Heroes

Recently Beaten: Gears of War | Super Mario Galaxy | Darwinia | MGS4 | Sam and Max Ep. 4, Portal | Mirror's Edge | Uncharted | Mass Effect

Looking Forward to: Alan Wake | Splinter Cell : Conviction | The Last Guardian | Batman: Arkham Asylum | SMG2 | Mass Effect 2 |

To bring the thread back to Mass Effect...

I'm also extremly excited about this game.  While both genre's of RPGs (East and west) seem to have done a great job of making combat interactive, NPC dialog systems still need work.  My understanding of what Mass Effect will be improving is the way you communicate with NPC's. 

 In most RPG's you listen/read the NPC's dialog, then you get a menu of choices to respond.   That's all fine, but it's not how real dialog works.  In the real world you can interupt someone while they talk, and they can respond to the interuption by getting angree, changing topics, growing fearful, etc.

 My understanding is that in Mass Effect you'll be able to interact with the NPC's while they talk.  Instead of having to wait to hear an entire dialog. 

Here's a paragraph from "Xbox360Fanboy.com" that talks about what they experienced with a hands on session:

As entertaining as combat is, the dialogue system is perhaps the real star of the show. Gone are the old dialogue trees and canned responses of games like KOTOR and Jade Empire. Well, the trees are still there, but they are cleverly hidden in a much more emotional system. As characters are talking, you'll be prompted with several choices, possibly including skill based options like persuasion. These choices are not verbatim responses, but more akin to your character's gut reaction. For instance, you might find someone questioning your ability to work peacefully with an aggressive crew member. During your conversation you might select "We'll take him," which leads your character to say aloud, "Don't worry, he'll be safe with us." Using this dynamic dialogue system, we found ourselves actually listening to what our character had to say, rather than simply picking a selection and skipping to the next prompt. A dialogue system that engages us in the story? Yes, please.

If someone can create an RPG that makes the dialog system as engaging and interactive as the combat system that would be a huge leap forward IMHO.

Full Hand's on Article: http://www.xbox360fanboy.com/2007/07/17/x3f-impressions-mass-effect/



My 360 can blog!

Gamers have 3 choices this generation: The Exercise Machine, the Movie Machine, or the Game Machine.  What kind of gamer are you?

I really don't care what it looks like. I gave up Japanese RPGs after FFX, and Morrowind and then KOTOR showed me what RPGs should really focus on -- i.e. the ROLE PLAYING. I have the faith that this will be one of the top RPG experiences of this new generation. Sounds like they've evolved their KOTOR style plenty, too. Cannot waiiiit. More excited about this than maybe any game this season.



daggy said:
@ItsaMii

The reason you don't like Western RPG's is fallacious, wRPG's aren't complex for a player at all. The reason people think that is because they are overwhelmed by the amount of choices in they have in the game. The player only needs to think simplistically and do their choices accordingly, just decide what you want your character to be and just do it.

A perfect example is Fallout, the most revered computer RPG franchise and one of the most in the wRPG's.

Fallout is set in a 50's retro-futuristic world, a futuristic world based on what was perceived in the 50's. In the beginning you have probably 1 minute of linear story and then you are sent into the devastated world without almost no knowledge of what you'll encounter. After that, there is no more linear story, you can go anywhere and do anything you want, but anything you do in the game has consequences... in Fallout 2 you can be a porn star, a slaver, a mafia made-man, a gravedigger, a childkiller, but most npc's will start to hate for some things you do, and you might even be targeted by bounty hunters, while others will like your actions. You can kill anyone, or kill everyone, or not even kill anyone directly to finish the game.
Everything in the game is so well done, that is almost impossible for an hardcore RPGer not to enjoy it, because it is strictly following to what is an RPG... to roleplay.


Fallout may sound ambitious (and it is), but a player just needs to think simple... make the character you want and just simply do the actions you feel your character would do... your char is a good guy? then he does good things. Is he a bad guy? then he does bad things. Is he an opportunist? then just do things that would benefit him the most. Is he a pacifist/speaker? Then let him try talk his way out of things. Is he a dumb character? then tough luck, most npc's will just call you retarded and won't give a shit about what you want. (if the char has low int, he won't be able to talk properly, instead he will mostly do grunts and noises rather than proper dialogues)
The consequences of your actions comes later.

Do not use a word if you do not know what it means. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy

Opinions are not fallacious, arguments are. A fallacy is telling me that Fallout is simple and making a long paragraph that just describe a little bit of the game and still getting me confused about what this game is all about.

The reason why I never got into many WRPGs is that in my eyes (and personal experience) they are complex. I do not have a lot of WRPGs experience to say that 90% of them are way too complex, but I know enough to say they are a lot more than JRPGs. There is always games like Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne, Disgaea and Seiken Densetsu 3 to say otherwise but they are not the rule of JRPGs. Dragon Quest developers had this in mind when they made the game. They wanted a game that most japanese players (from all ages) could play. I do not think that a 8 year old kid could play Fallout like he could Dragon Quest (excluding 6 and 7). 

My point is not that WRPGs are bad. I do not enjoy most of them, but that does not mean they have no value. Fallout (that is the first time I heard about it) sounds like a good experience. I may try it soon. But I do not think that this is a game that one just start playing without reading its instruction booklet or a faq. I looked at gamefaqs and your description of the game is incomplete. There are much more features than just talking to NPCs the way you think they would like. Of course I could finish the game playing whatever the way I like. Still I would have played 30% or 40% of the game`s content. You may finish Disgaea in 30 hours, but if you go for all the sidequests and supreme extra powerfull character building you may clock at 300 hours.

Read my posts again. Complex is not always bad and simple does not mean good game. Full Metal Alchemist for PS2 is simple game that sucks. Disgaea is a complex game that rocks. That was my discussion with mrstickball, simplicity or complexity does not define a good game.



Satan said:

"You are for ever angry, all you care about is intelligence, but I repeat again that I would give away all this superstellar life, all the ranks and honours, simply to be transformed into the soul of a merchant's wife weighing eighteen stone and set candles at God's shrine."