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Forums - Microsoft - Former Ensemble head Bruce Shelley not happy with Microsoft...

mysticD said:

I can see their reasoning (although shortsight) as PC market is shrinking (last Age of Empire did just so-so) and RTS genre is not what it once was.   Still, this is the studio with good track records and produce many hit.  If Halo Wars turn out to be console RTS, MS would loose out on turning out sequel and other RTS.

The PC market is healthier than ever, but Microsoft just wants to concentrate on Xbox. To be honest, I think it's idiotic that they had to close Ensemble so they could shift support for other devs since MS has $ billions laying around, but I guess you gotta have to please the share-holders.

Age of Empires 3 sold over 2 millions copies and had a couple of successful expansions... definitely not "so-so". Infact, I'd argue that RTS games are more popular than ever, especially if you consider the awesome lineup coming in 2009 (year of the RTS?):

Starcraft 2
Empire: Total War
Demigod
Dawn of War 2
Anno 1404
Majesty 2
Society
Company of Heroes Stand-alone expansion (rumored)
Halo Wars (Xbox 360)
Stormrise (PC/X360/PS3)



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Reminds me of when EA bought and then sacked most of Westwood Studios, a sad, sad day indeed. Why must the makers of brilliant RTS games get assraped?



Something is happening with MS studios ....Rares founders flee from MS ,Bungie buys back their liberty ,Bizarre gets acquired by Activision ,they close Ensemble ....they only seem to have intact Lionhead and who knows for how much time.



shio said:
mysticD said:

I can see their reasoning (although shortsight) as PC market is shrinking (last Age of Empire did just so-so) and RTS genre is not what it once was.   Still, this is the studio with good track records and produce many hit.  If Halo Wars turn out to be console RTS, MS would loose out on turning out sequel and other RTS.

The PC market is healthier than ever, but Microsoft just wants to concentrate on Xbox. To be honest, I think it's idiotic that they had to close Ensemble so they could shift support for other devs since MS has $ billions laying around, but I guess you gotta have to please the share-holders.

Age of Empires 3 sold over 2 millions copies and had a couple of successful expansions... definitely not "so-so". Infact, I'd argue that RTS games are more popular than ever, especially if you consider the awesome lineup coming in 2009 (year of the RTS?):

Starcraft 2
Empire: Total War
Demigod
Dawn of War 2
Anno 1404
Majesty 2
Society
Company of Heroes Stand-alone expansion (rumored)
Halo Wars (Xbox 360)
Stormrise (PC/X360/PS3)

Only game on that list that will sell by the boatload is Starcraft 2.  (Not to say others are bad, Dawn of War and Company of Heroes are both excellent series and I can't wait to play sequel).

I am not saying RTS is dead, but it's definitely not at the top of PC list these days.  Remember how big deal it was when C&C released the last one barely got noticed.

I understand MS decision but as you can see I don't agree with it.  But to MS it's always about the bottom line in the end.

 



mysticD said:
shio said:
mysticD said:

I can see their reasoning (although shortsight) as PC market is shrinking (last Age of Empire did just so-so) and RTS genre is not what it once was.   Still, this is the studio with good track records and produce many hit.  If Halo Wars turn out to be console RTS, MS would loose out on turning out sequel and other RTS.

The PC market is healthier than ever, but Microsoft just wants to concentrate on Xbox. To be honest, I think it's idiotic that they had to close Ensemble so they could shift support for other devs since MS has $ billions laying around, but I guess you gotta have to please the share-holders.

Age of Empires 3 sold over 2 millions copies and had a couple of successful expansions... definitely not "so-so". Infact, I'd argue that RTS games are more popular than ever, especially if you consider the awesome lineup coming in 2009 (year of the RTS?):

Starcraft 2
Empire: Total War
Demigod
Dawn of War 2
Anno 1404
Majesty 2
Society
Company of Heroes Stand-alone expansion (rumored)
Halo Wars (Xbox 360)
Stormrise (PC/X360/PS3)

Only game on that list that will sell by the boatload is Starcraft 2.  (Not to say others are bad, Dawn of War and Company of Heroes are both excellent series and I can't wait to play sequel).

I am not saying RTS is dead, but it's definitely not at the top of PC list these days.  Remember how big deal it was when C&C released the last one barely got noticed.

I understand MS decision but as you can see I don't agree with it.  But to MS it's always about the bottom line in the end.

What are you basing your opinion on? Sales or Quality? 2009 there will be 3 Huge RTS games (Starcraft 2, Dawn of War 2, Empire: Total War), 2 respectable RTS (Demigod, Anno 1404) and Majesty 2. Society is a free MMORTS, and COH's standalone is a rumor so far.

Starcraft 2 will sell atleast 10 millions, Dawn of War 2 will get a couple of millions sold. Empire Total War, Demigod and Anno 1404 will all reach the 1 million mark. And knowing Paradox Interactive, it will probably be a success if they sold 400k of Majesty 2.

And I thought C&C3 was a success and is over 1 million sales. Not bad for a game with an "outdated" gameplay.



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Dodece said:
What I find idiotic about these threads is the number of poster lambasting Microsoft for this, and yet when I look at their game collections I do not see a Xbox 360 in their list. Microsoft has to be more competitive to make their product succeed. Thus they have to make difficult financial decisions. Do you think it was easy for them to make this decision.

They knew Ensemble could make them a lot of money on the PC. However they need to focus on their console. Ensemble was probably not going to help them there, and the genre is not a good genre for consoles. So they had to dissolve the studio. Yes it is tragic, but for Microsoft it might also have been necessary.

The reality is this for all your griping you did fail to support Ensemble. You failed to support the gaming group of its parent company. When you fail to do that you make things like this happen all the more often. Were the 360 five million more units sold right now this would probably not have happened. Microsoft would not feel a pressing need to do this, and your favorite studio would have a future.

Not to say you still have no recourse. Does anyone remember the New Coke debacle. Now if you are really serious buy Microsoft's hardware. Order their latest game, and write Microsoft a letter about you wanting them to change their position. I guarantee you if enough people write in, and Microsoft sees decent reservations for Ensembles latest game they would feel compelled to change their position. You do have the power to change this if you really do care.

Which a great many members in this community do not. Many of them will say they do, but that did not get them into the retailer to buy the 360 to play the latest game from Ensemble. How were you going to support this developer if you were not going to do this in the first place. You should take this as a lesson this is what happens to studios when their fans do not support them. They get the axe.

You can sit in the corner and bitch, or you can try to do something about what is happening. Read those comments as a call for help there is still a few months left to save this studio. You can do that by opening your wallet and speaking out. Microsoft listens to money. Put your money where your mouth is, and make it known. That is how you get a company to change its mind.

 

I did put my money where my mouth is, by buying Ensemble's kick ass games.  As did millions of others.

Ensemble was probably Microsoft's most profitable developer after Bungie (and their most profitable, after Bungie left).  Does it matter that they weren't focusing entirely on the 360?  They were still pulling in cash to alleviate the deficits from the rest of Microsoft's gaming division, and their profits could've gone towards the development of more titles for the 360.

And they WERE supporting the 360, through Halo Wars and the MMO.  Microsoft just didn't give them enough time to actually release these games, and thus couldn't see their effects.

Don't give me this crap that buying all of Microsoft's products would've somehow save Ensemble, as if it's our fault.

 



Wait ,does this mean Halo Wars is cancelled?



mysticD said:

Microsoft always been penny wise and pound foolish. They always think short terms in whatever they do which is too bad. From customers services, RROD debacle, stupid DRM to trivial stuff like using cheap ass cases for games like the cheap 3 disc + 1 for Lost Oddysey to even their top of the line like Halo 3 which used cheap "imitation" steel case result in discs going loose during transit.

 

Actually you have it backwards.  Microsoft is pound wise and penny foolish, and they wouldn't be where they are today without being pound wise.  Most of the above are all penny issues to Microsoft.  They are looking at a much bigger picture then you do.



Dodece said:
What I find idiotic about these threads is the number of poster lambasting Microsoft for this, and yet when I look at their game collections I do not see a Xbox 360 in their list. Microsoft has to be more competitive to make their product succeed. Thus they have to make difficult financial decisions. Do you think it was easy for them to make this decision.

They knew Ensemble could make them a lot of money on the PC. However they need to focus on their console. Ensemble was probably not going to help them there, and the genre is not a good genre for consoles. So they had to dissolve the studio. Yes it is tragic, but for Microsoft it might also have been necessary.

The reality is this for all your griping you did fail to support Ensemble. You failed to support the gaming group of its parent company. When you fail to do that you make things like this happen all the more often. Were the 360 five million more units sold right now this would probably not have happened. Microsoft would not feel a pressing need to do this, and your favorite studio would have a future.

Not to say you still have no recourse. Does anyone remember the New Coke debacle. Now if you are really serious buy Microsoft's hardware. Order their latest game, and write Microsoft a letter about you wanting them to change their position. I guarantee you if enough people write in, and Microsoft sees decent reservations for Ensembles latest game they would feel compelled to change their position. You do have the power to change this if you really do care.

Which a great many members in this community do not. Many of them will say they do, but that did not get them into the retailer to buy the 360 to play the latest game from Ensemble. How were you going to support this developer if you were not going to do this in the first place. You should take this as a lesson this is what happens to studios when their fans do not support them. They get the axe.

You can sit in the corner and bitch, or you can try to do something about what is happening. Read those comments as a call for help there is still a few months left to save this studio. You can do that by opening your wallet and speaking out. Microsoft listens to money. Put your money where your mouth is, and make it known. That is how you get a company to change its mind.

Ensemble single-handedly made MGS. AoE is what is what put M$ on the radar when it came to games and later led to the Xbox. If it wasn't for ES and their amazing success, there probably wouldn't be an Xbox brand. M$ owes a lot to ES and what they are doing is a bad move. Telling people that M$ has no money is like telling them the ocean is running out of water. Bill Gates is still the number one richest man in the world, and I assure you M$ as a company has more money than he does. They have billions of billions to spend.

Ensemble was the best studio they ever had and the AoE games were the best games put out by M$. Every gamer who can call themselves a gamer knows of Ensemble and they all respect them. All shutting them down will do is anger the gamers. I hope most of the leaders learn from this, tell M$ to fuck off and make a new studio with almost the same staff, make a successor to AoE, or an entirely new IP, and make it a runaway success. That should teach M$ not to fuck with their most talented developers.

@MysticD

I don't know what you've been reading or smoking, but the RTS genre is growing rather than shrinking. Mor people play RTS games now than ever before. I just logged into Battle.net to check the numbers, 82k people are play games on battle.net for Warcraft3. It's 9:30am and most people are at work or in school so that's a pretty big crowd. It goes up a drastic amount in the afternoon. This is just WC3, a game that came out in 2003. I can tell you that the RTS genre is far from dead.

 



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