stof said: I don't think your trying to bash the Wii at all Legend. Why? Becausey you just compared it to the two most successful consoles of their generations. The Atari 2600 was the first massively purchased console. It appealed to people that never gamed before and managed to move 26 million units. The NES revived console gaming after the great crash of 83/84 by significantly expanding the videogame market to include those that hadn't played before.

lol yeah Nintendo can only hope this trend is followed.  IMO I do think history is repeating itself.  The Wii is repeating what the DS did.  I had never heard more people complain about a game system in my life than did about the DS.  "No hardcore games."  "All they care about are casuals, the PSP is the system for gamers."  The DS in fact took MUCH longer to get major hardcore Nintendo games out than the Wii is.  3 years later, the DS continues to blow away the PSP in attach rate, 3rd party, and first party software sales.  he DS library is double that of the PSP, with lots of variety and an amazing mix of hardcore and casual games.  The PSP gets some occaissional great games (Crisis Core, Castlevania), but the DS get's the majority of major development focus.  So yeah, history repeats itself.  PS360 = PSP.  Wii = DS.

Legend11 said: Actually come to think of it the new casual games vs. hardcore games reminds me a lot of when reality tv vs. episodic television. Some people who were used to episodic television (like Law & Order, Seinfeld, etc) hated reality tv or felt threatened by it, but studios loved them though because they were cheap and easier to produce. Some people thought they were going to be just a fad and others thought they might hurt episodic television a lot yet today it's been shown to be anything but a fad and that both episodic tv and reality tv can co-exist with both having their hits.

 Don't even get me started on the crap that is reality tv, not that most episodic shows are any better but 'reality' tv takes the cake in stupidity.

First of all, stop thinking about casuals vs. hardcores and such. As HappySquirrel stated, very little of all gamers are actually so-called hardcore gamers, and even more important, borders between the two groups are not given, it changes. The same also goes for games, there are of course some games you'd call casual games, but it's better to call them non-games, cause that makes the boarders clearer. But we all know that the casuals are not playing a lot, this means that a company can't live alone on them, Nintendo still needs "Hardcore gamers" that buy a lot of software.

And now, finally, about your question. Of course this happened, and of course this will happen again. But as you stated, you and your siblings kept using the systems, and this will probably happen again. Also, some of those casuals will pick up TP or Galaxy or something and become more interested in games, the so-called Gateway effect. Some of course will only play for Wii Sports and Wii Fit and such, but just don't think this is something new, same happened for example with SingStar/Playstation.

FishyJoe said: I mentioned this in the other thread as well. What about the glut in FPS games? It seems like there are more and more FPS shooters with bigger and bigger budgets. At some point there has to be saturation if not even a bubble. At one point in the Sony show there were five straight FPS demos in a row. How many big budget FPS shooters can the industry make? If the base remains stagnant, can the escalation continue?

 

I think the bubble is already happening. Only the ones that are trying to blow people away and add new stuff are succeeding. Just look at that Hour of Victory game that just came out it got hammered because it was a generic FPS. The good ones will stay big as ever because the genre is popular, but the others are going to have a very hard time staying alive. I agree with you there are lots of shooters, but if they are good what is the problem? 

 

The new casual gamer is the non-gamer that the Wii is trying to get, the old casual gamer who was the person who plays video games once in a while is now on a category of its own (people who play a shooter here or there or a Sports game here or there).

rocketpig said: You have valid points and history may very well repeat itself. But I doubt it. As ckmlb stated, Nintendo is actually making a push toward casual gamers this time around. Previous to this, casual gamers were simply interested in something novel and once that initial "wow" wore off, they moved on. There was nothing new to keep them interested. Do I expect this Wii insanity to slow down? Oh, absolutely. Many of those casual gamers who were fighting to get a Wii over the past year will realize that they don't really like gaming and move on. But many of them will stay because Nintendo is actually attempting to court them this time around. With that said, I still think WiiFit is friggin' stupid. It defines the word "gimmick". Unless Nintendo has a lot more to offer with that system than they showed us, the novelty will wear off incredibly quickly. The thing isn't even really exercise. I wouldn't break a sweat on that thing. I can't see anyone who isn't morbidly obese actually believing that board will help them get into shape.

I have to disagree. IMHO these think will sale, BIG TIME. Why? Well, yes, its not a "real game". But do you know how many people pay for thinks like that? Do you know how much people (more precisely woman) spend on things like that? I' m sure you don't even sweat doing the shown exercises. But i bet, other will. (Hell i would!)

I think game developers (first party and third party) are going to have to work hard to continually come up with compelling new content/experiences if they're going to keep casual gamers' interest for the long term. It's much easier to lose the interest of someone who's only casually interested in something than someone who have a love for it.

ckmlb said: The new casual gamer is the non-gamer that the Wii is trying to get, the old casual gamer who was the person who plays video games once in a while is now on a category of its own (people who play a shooter here or there or a Sports game here or there).

I'm affraid a statement like that makes little sense on a hardcore gaming forum flooded by 80% Wii owners.  If the Wii had no appeal, why would there be so many Wii fans on the internet?  According to polls more than 50% of gamefaqs owns a Wii or will buy one.  Why did Zelda sell 3.41 million copies and continues to break into the top 20?  Why did Reggie spend the first hour of the conference showing 3rd and 1st party hardcore Wii games and explaining over and over that Nintendo will never stop making epic games for the "core gamer"?  Why do you now think that when the ONLY casual game shown at E3 was Wii Fit?  Did you bother watching the press conference or were you so ready to bash Nintendo that as soon as you saw Wii Fit you jumped right on it?

Just_Ben said: I have to disagree. IMHO these think will sale, BIG TIME. Why? Well, yes, its not a "real game". But do you know how many people pay for thinks like that? Do you know how much people (more precisely woman) spend on things like that? I' m sure you don't even sweat doing the shown exercises. But i bet, other will. (Hell i would!)

I'm sure it will be a hit for a few weeks while Self, Us Weekly, and every other nauseating magazine my wife reads play up the virtues of the mat in articles, reviews, etc.

Once everyone realizes that it's actually terrible for exercising, they'll move on to something that will actually help them get into shape and lose weight.

This could change dramatically if Nintendo has more up their sleeve than what they showed us at E3 but I really, really doubt it. 

rocketpig said: With that said, I still think WiiFit is friggin' stupid. It defines the word "gimmick". Unless Nintendo has a lot more to offer with that system than they showed us, the novelty will wear off incredibly quickly. The thing isn't even really exercise. I wouldn't break a sweat on that thing. I can't see anyone who isn't morbidly obese actually believing that board will help them get into shape.

I disagree. I think WiiFit is a brilliant move. Think about how health crazed the Japanese people are. Now imagine with their limited space that they could get a fairly decent workout in their own homes and have fun while doing it. This game could sell millions in Japan alone. Any sales in the US or Europe would just be added frosting on the cake. This game is right in the same vains as the Brain Training series and could potentially be a system selling game.