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Forums - General - PoliCHARTZ - Thread of U.S. Politics & the Presidential Election

Final-Fan said:
Amusing, but that graph indicates that McCain is also affecting the market. (Day 5)

One might even infer that a vote for McCain would improve the economy! SPIN!



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fkusumot said:
Final-Fan said:
Amusing, but that graph indicates that McCain is also affecting the market. (Day 5)

One might even infer that a vote for McCain would improve the economy! SPIN!

 

 

Economy is a terrorist! It's going down causing America's Hero to lose support. Damn economy making us surrender in iraq confirmed.



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I really want to know why Obama can't close the deal.



http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/maps/obama_vs_mccain/
Virginia is leaning Obama now. Obama can win currently without winning any of RCP's toss up states.



A few new other polls of note today:

West Virginia (now a toss up from leaning McCain)

RCP Average 09/05 - 10/08 -- 46.5 44.3 McCain +2.2
ARG 10/04 - 10/08 600 LV 42 50 Obama +8
Rasmussen 09/24 - 09/24 500 LV 50 42 McCain +8
CNN/Time 09/21 - 09/23 694 LV 50 46 McCain +4
MBE 09/05 - 09/08 432 RV 44 39 McCain +5

New Missourri numbers (back to McCain slightly)

RCP Average 09/22 - 10/06 -- 47.8 47.4 McCain +0.4
ARG 10/04 - 10/06 600 LV 49 46 McCain +3
FOX News/Rasmussen 10/05 - 10/05 1000 LV 47 50 Obama +3
CNN/Time 09/28 - 09/30 744 LV 48 49 Obama +1
SurveyUSA 09/23 - 09/24 705 LV 48 46 McCain +2
Post-Dispatch/R2000 09/22 - 09/24 800 LV 47 46 McCain +1

New Ohio numbers:

RCP Average 09/24 - 10/07 -- 48.8 44.9 Obama +3.9
ARG 10/04 - 10/07 600 LV 48 45 Obama +3
CNN/Time 10/03 - 10/06 749 LV 50 47 Obama +3
FOX News/Rasmussen 10/05 - 10/05 1000 LV 47 48 McCain +1
PPP (D) 10/04 - 10/05 1239 LV 49 43 Obama +6
ABC News/Wash Post 10/03 - 10/05 772 LV 51 45 Obama +6
Columbus Dispatch* 09/24 - 10/03 2262 LV 49 42 Obama +7
Democracy Corps (D) 09/29 - 10/01 600 LV 49 43 Obama +6
InAdv/PollPosition 09/29 - 09/29 512 LV 47 45 Obama +2
SurveyUSA 09/28 - 09/29 693 LV 48 49 McCain +1
Quinnipiac 09/27 - 09/29 825 LV 50 42 Obama +8

New Florida numbers:

RCP Average 09/27 - 10/08 -- 48.1 45.6 Obama +2.5
Rasmussen 10/08 - 10/08 700 LV 50 47 Obama +3
Mason-Dixon 10/04 - 10/06 625 LV 48 46 Obama +2
Florida Chamber (R) 09/30 - 10/01 619 RV 42 45 McCain +3
CNN/Time 09/28 - 09/30 770 LV 51 47 Obama +4
InAdv/PollPosition 09/30 - 09/30 532 LV 49 46 Obama +3
Suffolk/WSVN 09/27 - 09/30 600 LV 46 42 Obama +4
Quinnipiac 09/27 - 09/29 836 LV 51 43 Obama +8
SurveyUSA 09/27 - 09/28 599 LV 47 48 McCain +1
PPP (D) 09/27 - 09/28 941 LV 49 46 Obama +3


We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

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fkusumot said:


I really want to know why Obama can't close the deal.

 

11% lead, oh noes, 12% of Americans are closet racists who will say one thing in a poll and another in the privacy of a voting booth.



I would cite regulation, but I know you will simply ignore it.

 

As of October 10th, 2008.

Obama: 343

McCain: 184

Tie: 11

  • North Carolina went from a tie to slightly McCain.
  • Missouri went from slightly Obama to a tie.

The Webmaster at electoral-vote.com has this to say about the accuracy of polling this year:

Polling's Perfect Storm?

According to Mark Blumenthal at National Journal, there are three factors at work that may cause polls to be way off this year. They are:

  1. 20% of all households don't have a landline and they are mostly younger voters
  2. The "Bradley Effect" in which white voters tell pollsters they will vote for a black guy but don't
  3. Likely voter models may not capture the electorate correctly

Cell-phone-only voters are young and strongly pro-Obama and may cause his strength to be understated. The effect can be compensated for by weighting 18-29 year olds in sufficient numbers (but see below). The second effect is unknown although it did not appear to be a big factor in the primaries. This effect would cause McCain's strength to appear weaker than it really is. Finally, the likely voter models assume there is some way to tell who will vote and who won't. This year that is very hard to gauge and demographic models based on the 2004 exit polls may not be worth much. On the other hand, these effects may all cancel. It is a tough call.

 



^ I guess the Bradley Effect isn't what I had thought it was from what I read in this thread. The black guy doesn't LOSE points, he just loses the undecided vote (effectively, anyway).

"• The Bradley-Wilder Effect. I have written about this issue here before, but the critical idea is not that some voters "just won't vote for Barack Obama because he's black." Rather, what pollsters fear is that in the context of a survey interview, some respondents may fail to tell the truth about their preferences due to some "social discomfort" arising from Obama's race.

"In the 1980s and early 1990s, in a series of contests between black and white candidates -- including the historic gubernatorial candidacies of Tom Bradley in California in 1982 and Doug Wilder in Virginia in 1989 -- polls typically understated support for the white candidate. The black candidates would receive roughly the same percentage of the vote on Election Day that they did on the last poll, while the white candidates did surprisingly better than the polls predicted. Handicappers started to assume that most of the undecided vote in such contests would "break" for the white candidate.

"Over the last 10 years, according to a paper [PDF] by Harvard post-doctoral fellow Daniel Hopkins that studied 133 statewide races between 1989 and 2006, the apparent polling bias in such races largely disappeared. But can we assume that Bradley-Wilder will remain in remission this fall?"



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

The Bradley Effect may be severely diminished by the horrible economic news that is happening almost daily.

Anyways, here are the most recent national poll numbers, electoral count, and battleground state numbers from RCP:

National:

RCP Average 10/01 - 10/09 -- 49.5 43.3 Obama +6.2
Gallup Tracking 10/07 - 10/09 2784 RV 51 41 Obama +10
Rasmussen Tracking 10/07 - 10/09 3000 LV 50 45 Obama +5
Hotline/FD Tracking 10/07 - 10/09 838 LV 48 41 Obama +7
Reuters/CSpan/Zogby Tracking 10/07 - 10/09 1203 LV 48 43 Obama +5
GW/Battleground Tracking 10/06 - 10/09 800 LV 51 43 Obama +8
Time 10/03 - 10/06 1053 LV 50 44 Obama +6
NBC News/Wall St. Jrnl 10/04 - 10/05 658 RV 49 43 Obama +6
CBS News 10/03 - 10/05 616 LV 48 45 Obama +3
CNN 10/03 - 10/05 694 LV 53 45 Obama +8
Ipsos/McClatchy 10/02 - 10/06 858 RV 47 40 Obama +7
Democracy Corps (D) 10/01 - 10/05 1000 LV 49 46 Obama +3

Electoral Count:

Electoral College Obama McCain Spread
RCP Electoral Count 277 158 Obama +119
No Toss Up States 353 185 Obama +168

Battleground States:

Ohio (20) 48.8 45.7 Obama +3.1 Toss Up Bush +2.1 Bush +3.5
Florida (27) 48.5 45.4 Obama +3.1 Toss Up Bush +5.0 Bush +0.1
Nevada (5) 49.6 46.6 Obama +3.0 Toss Up Bush +2.6 Bush +3.5
North Carolina (15) 48.4 46.6 Obama +1.8 Toss Up Bush +12.4 Bush +12.8
Missouri (11) 47.4 47.8 McCain +0.4 Toss Up Bush +7.2 Bush +3.3
Indiana (11) 45.0 48.8 McCain +3.8 Toss Up Bush +20.7 Bush +15.7
Colorado (9) 49.3 45.3 Obama +4.0 Toss Up Bush +4.7 Bush +8.4
West Virginia (5) 44.3 46.5 McCain +2.2 Toss Up Bush +12.9 Bush +6.3
Virginia (13) 50.0 44.9 Obama +5.1 Leaning Bush +8.2 Bush +8.1
Wisconsin (10) 51.4 42.6 Obama +8.8 Leaning Kerry +0.4 Gore +0.2
Michigan (17) 49.8 41.6 Obama +8.2 Leaning Kerry +3.4 Gore +5.2
New Mexico (5) 49.8 42.5 Obama +7.3 Leaning Bush +0.7 Gore +0.1
Washington (11) 49.8 41.8 Obama +8.0 Leaning Kerry +8.2 Gore +5.5
Georgia (15) 43.8 51.2 McCain +7.4 Leaning Bush +16.6 Bush +11.7

 



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

The first campaign I worked for was the McGovern campaign. It wasn't much of a job, just putting flyers out. My campaign issue was the Vietnam war. One of my uncles had died in Vietnam, my father had done one tour of duty there and was getting ready to go for another. My other three uncles in the service had done a combined five tours and one was currently in theater.

The McGovern loss was a big wake-up call for the Democratic Party. They leaned too far to the left and McGovern didn't even carry his home state. For the last couple of months I've been seeing a similar parallel in this national election, but now, on the Republican side. Today, reading an article, I found someone else put it in far better words than I could:

The economy is irrelevant compared with religious identity. What this campaign may be doing is stripping most secular Republicans and independents from the GOP coalition. We could be left with a purely sectarian-Christianist rump, which will control the GOP for a generation. And McCain will have distilled Rove's religious coalition in eight weeks more effectively than Bush in eight years!

What we may be seeing is all the dangerous trends I identified in "The Conservative Soul: Fundamentalism, Freedom and the Future Of The Right" being brought to faster and more potent fruition by the combination of an economic crisis, a black Democratic candidate and a far-right Christianist unknown like Palin. It is as if the McCain-Palin campaign is acting as a purgative of moderate or centrist Republicanism in this atmosphere. What this could portend is that the GOP could become reduced to a George Wallace rump - even more than it now is. And from that scorched piece of earth, it will be much harder to recover in the short or medium run. Source