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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Wii "inhospitable platform for third-party publishers"

routsounmanman on 13 September 2008
Kurakasa said:
trestres said:

 

Also why name only the great hits and not the great flops, like Too Human, Lair, Haze, Stranglehold, Nascar, Bourne Conspiracy, Alone in the Dark, Enemy Territory: Quake Wars, Ridge Racer 6 and 7, Dead or Alive Extreme, Moto GP 06 and 07, The Club, Virtua Fighter 5, Final Fantasy XI, Conflict: Denied Ops, Amped 3, Enchanted Arms, Top Spin 2 and 3, Sega Superstar Tennis, Blacksite: Area 51, Viva Piñata: Party Animals, Eye of Judgement, Far Cry Instincts: Predator, Dinasty Warriors 6 (360), Battlestations: Midway, Call of Juarez, Gun, Chromehounds, Tony Hawk's Proving Ground, Overlord, Two Worlds, The Godfather, Medal of Honour Airbone, Shadowrun, Viking: Battle for Asgard, Beijing 2008, Hitman Blood Money, The Outfit, Sid Meier's Civilization Revolution, Rayman Raving Rabbids, Beautiful Katamari, Bowulf, Def Jam Icon, Tenchu Z, Turning Point: Fall of Liberty, Quake 4, Eternal Sonata, Clive Barker's Jericho, NHL 06 07 08, NHL 2K7 2K8, The Bigs, NBA 2K6 2K7, NBA Live 06 07, NBA Street Homecourt, The Golden Compass, Iron Man, Conan, Culdcept Saga, Fatal Inertia, Tomb Raider Anniversary, Project Sylpheed, Blazing Angels 2, Sega Rally Revo.... I can go on forever.

 

Look, I made a similar list for wii:

 

http://vgchartz.com/games/index.php?page=2&results=50&name=&console=Wii&keyword=&publisher=&genre=&order=Sales&boxart=Both&showdeleted=&region=All&alphasort=

 

Just read from the first title to the last and then click that next page-icon.

 

This list is generated by your logic that a 630k selling game on 360 is a huge flop. Unless you know the exact development cost of each game and how much they made profit or lost money on any game, we have to be talking about sales figures. Do you think that for example EA would be making those nhl games every year unless they are making profit with them?

Yup because we all know costs on HD and the Wii is the same.

 



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Kurakasa on 13 September 2008

@routsounmanman

Care to show some figures about those games which were on that list? If you don't, there is little point in posting that kind of stuff.



Erik Aston on 13 September 2008
Impulsivity said:

    Noone is saying they can't make money off the Wii.  Take 2 made at least 100 million in retail sales off of Carnival games.  Given the production values 99.9 million of that was pure profit.  The point is not that noone makes money on the Wii, its that noone makes money off of good games on the Wii except Nintendo.

 Don't think of "there are no successful good games on the Wii not made by Nintendo" as an insult, think of it as a call to action.  Unless the market changes and more people buy Boom Blox and less buy Carnival games, you're going to get a lot more mini games and a lot less quality titles.  

 It's not about whether third parties can make money on the Wii, of course they can, its a question of HOW they will make that money.  I bet you anything take two doesn't care if it makes 100 million selling carinavle games or 100 million selling a Wii GTA, so if you want that Wii GTA buy games like it to show that the Wii will support the much higher production costs a GTA type game requires.

The power is yours!

 

Nah, the power isn't yours.

Wii owners have already bought more copies of Mario Kart, Mario Galaxy, Smash Bros. Brawl, Twilight Princess, Guitar Hero and even Super Paper Mario than they have any mini-game collection not involving Nintendo. Nintendo's own so-called mini-game collections also run a comparitively wider gamut than third parties', from Wii Sports to Wii Fit to Big Brain Academy to WarioWare.

The reason third parties are focusing on mini-game collections is because, of all the things which have been proven will sell on Wii, they're the easiest to make. A third party with a major platforming star, like Sonic or Rayman, might do one of two things. They could make exclusive platformers for Wii like Secret Rings (1.7M sold) and Black Knight. Or, they could repurpose their star for annual mini-game collections, because they're easier to make.

Eventually the tide will turn. Wii Sports Resort will eat up the market for "Wii Sports 2" type games. Newly established mini-game brands like Carnival Games and Raving Rabbids will own big chunks of the mini-game market. Production values will go up to try to gain an edge, yet sales will go down as players grow tired of the same experiences. Third parties will be forced to try their hand in areas like platformers, racers, fighters or adventure titles, where Wii already has the most popular games of the decade or of all-time.

And eventually, the situation will be like it is with DS, which now has Guitar Hero, Grand Theft Auto and Dragon Quest all locked up from PSP.



"[Our former customers] are unable to find software which they WANT to play."
"The way to solve this problem lies in how to communicate what kind of games [they CAN play]."

Satoru Iwata, Nintendo President. Only slightly paraphrased.

Erik Aston on 13 September 2008
Garcian Smith said:

First/Second-Party Developed: 12

Third-Party Developed: 16

 

That's a stupid way to do it. Who publishes it matters much more. Unless I can land a deal with a first party publisher to lend me their IP and pay for my game development and marketing, why would I care if someone else did?



"[Our former customers] are unable to find software which they WANT to play."
"The way to solve this problem lies in how to communicate what kind of games [they CAN play]."

Satoru Iwata, Nintendo President. Only slightly paraphrased.

trestres on 13 September 2008

@kurakasa: Nice trolling, although all of the titles I named sold less than 300k on the 360, and way less on the PS3. Those are what you call flops.



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tag - "I wouldn't trust gamespot, even if it was a live comparison."

Bets with Conegamer:

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Pandora's Tower will sell less than 100k lifetime in Japan.
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Squilliam on 13 September 2008
Garcian Smith said:
ToastyJaguar said:

 

yeah maybe but i'm looking at the million sellers on the Wii and only 13 out of 28 are developed by third parties.

and most of those barely made a million.

If you look at the PS3 or 360 it's like the exact oposite

 

 

And the survey says?

*BRRRRRRRRRRRRT!!*

 

MILLION SELLERS ON WII: 28

First/Second-Party Developed: 12 I would call it 15 (Anything with the name Mario in it belongs with Nintendo)

Third-Party Developed: 16 [SSBB, Mario Party 8, and Mario Strikers Charged were published by Nintendo, but developed by third parties] 13

Average Sales Numbers: 4.28 Million (1.83 for third parties or 1.53 excluding Mario+Sonic)

 


MILLION SELLERS ON 360: 42

First/Second-Party Developed: 4

Third-Party Developed: 38

Average Sales Numbers: 2.26 Million (2.1 Million for third parties) Also the love is spread to 3* the number of titles.

 

MILLION SELLERS ON PS3: 16

First/Second-Party Developed: 5

Third-Party Developed: 11

Average Sales Numbers: 2.20 Million

 

So, as you can see, the Wii has significantly more third-party million-sellers than the PS3. And, while the 360 beats the Wii in that department, that's more a testament to Microsoft's weakness in first-party development (and their success in attracting PC ports to the 360 platform) than any weakness on the Wii's or Nintendo's part. And finally, million sellers on the Wii actually sell much, much more than those on the HD consoles, on average.

You = fail.

Furthermore - if you take the publishers perspectives into account there are many more titles which crack 1 million+ when you merge the PS3/Xbox 360 sales charts.

 



Tease.

Cobretti2 on 13 September 2008

I havent read all the posts, but here is my two cents worth

1) Madden 09 on wii sucks compared to PS3 (i dont mean graphically) but in general gameplay and lack of REAL contnet v crpapy all play BS. EA need to take the sports games more serious for the actual gamer.

2) Okami I reckon would sell well IF it was around. I cna not find a copy of it any where. Did capcom run out of discs?

3) 3rd parties not selling well is obvious already, mainly due to the crap games it has.

4) all 4rd parties still THINK they MUST use the wii remote. there are games (SUCH AS SPORTS) where TRADITIONAL contorls would work better. im looking at you EA. use them as a secondary optoin and more people might buy the games



 

 

trestres on 13 September 2008

@Squilliam, why do you "merge" PS3 games with 360 games. This is just a lame excuse used by HD fanboys when they are running out of excuses. By that logic merge the PS2, GC and Xbox games with the Wii ones, seeing as their hardware is more similar.



Proud poster of the 10000th reply at the Official Smash Bros Update Thread.

tag - "I wouldn't trust gamespot, even if it was a live comparison."

Bets with Conegamer:

Pandora's Tower will have an opening week of less than 37k in Japan. (Won!)
Pandora's Tower will sell less than 100k lifetime in Japan.
Stakes: 1 week of avatar control for each one.

Fullfilled Prophecies

Kurakasa on 13 September 2008
trestres said:
@kurakasa: Nice trolling, although all of the titles I named sold less than 300k on the 360, and way less on the PS3. Those are what you call flops.

 

Maybe you should doublecheck your list.

 

http://vgchartz.com/games/game.php?id=5439

 

I bet there many games on your list that have sold more than 300k on 360.

 

How about some of those games that are available on wii too? Godfather, alone in the dark, tony hawk proving ground,nba live,far cry,tomb raider.... i bet there are a lot of more and most of them have sold less on wii than 360. Heck, let's just say that any other game than RRR has sold less on wii than on 360. Those are flops only on hd-systems and not on wii? :)



trestres on 13 September 2008

@kurakasa: Wow, I put only 1 game that didn't sell less than 300k and my list is invalid!!
But there goes the theory that HD games are always mega hits, Wii has nothing to do with it. I listed a hell lot of games that were flops on the 360 and PS3 and I proved my point.



Proud poster of the 10000th reply at the Official Smash Bros Update Thread.

tag - "I wouldn't trust gamespot, even if it was a live comparison."

Bets with Conegamer:

Pandora's Tower will have an opening week of less than 37k in Japan. (Won!)
Pandora's Tower will sell less than 100k lifetime in Japan.
Stakes: 1 week of avatar control for each one.

Fullfilled Prophecies