I am against this game, but I'm posting because I wanna knoww what people think about this. Would Wii Music be a game under thesse rules?

Computer game designer Chris Crawford attempted to define the term game[4] using a series of dichotomies:

Creative expression is art if made for its own beauty, and entertainment if made for money. (This is the least rigid of his definitions. Crawford acknowledges that he often chooses a creative path over conventional business wisdom, which is why he rarely produces sequels to his games.)

A piece of entertainment is a plaything if it is interactive. Movies and books are cited as examples of non-interactive entertainment.

If no goals are associated with a plaything, it is a toy. (Crawford notes that by his definition, (a) a toy can become a game element if the player makes up rules, and (b) The Sims and SimCity are toys, not games.) If it has goals, a plaything is a challenge.

If a challenge has no “active agent against whom you compete,” it is a puzzle; if there is one, it is a conflict. (Crawford admits that this is a subjective test. Some games with noticeably algorithmic artificial intelligence can be played as puzzles; these include the patterns used to evade ghosts in Pac-Man.)

Finally, if the player can only outperform the opponent, but not attack them to interfere with their performance, the conflict is a competition. (Competitions include racing and figure skating.) However, if attacks are allowed, then the conflict qualifies as a game.

Crawford's definition may thus be rendered as: an interactive, goal-oriented activity, active agents to play against, in which players (including active agents) can interfere with each other.

Or how about just getting bored with the game?

@bdbdbd - Yes but again, in Wii Sports you get a score and can progress your score effectively becoming better and better at all the sports.   In Wii Fit you get a BMI, weight and Wii Fit age that you're encourages to improve.  Wii Music seems to lack that essencial component.  You never improve.  You always suck at music in Wii Music and/or pretend you don't.

Sure in GH you still suck at guitar but you can rock at GH - and you can prove it, to yourself and others.

And jamming with friends without any rhythm at all is no fun.  It didn't look fun at E3.  Nor is there anything in the game to encourage you to try again or be able to 'recover' from your buddies lack of skill (or your own).

Accessible - yes.  Fun??  Doesn't look like it.

Just case in point my final thoughts on this, music games are rhythm games and it should be, no any video game can simulate ANY MUSIC whatsoever. Wii Music right now was just air instrumenting its a shame of rhythm games. Everyone knows it, even casuals knows it. Even Guitar Hero fans knew theyre not really simulating a real guitar, nor theyre just pretending to simulate a guitar. The peripheral was only for show. The real point of rhythm games such as Guitar Hero was to get on the rhythm like any other rhythm games before it.

But the music was too good to rhythm to that everyone thinks that its really a music game which isnt. The developers just trick you that it is.

About Wii music, theres no rhythm in the game you just flail your arms around so how can you considered it a rhythm game? Bust a groove was much better than Wii Music since it have a sense of rhythm than Wii Music ever did...

@yushire: So far only music games we have, are rhythm games. Wii Music is different in the sense, that you actually have some control over the song you play, instead of great-good-bad-miss and combo.
Wii Music is closer to Singstar (which essentially is a rhythm game too) than Guitar Hero.
When you look at music in general, playing it, dancing it, it's all about rhythm.

@NYANKS: The Crawfords definition was pretty good to an extent and actually summed up one thing i have been pointing out, which is that all that counts is how you play.

@Kurakasa: Yes, a lot of people get bored with games they can't play.

@Gamerace: But it's different with Guitar Hero, you have no control over how you play the song, the song always plays the same, but all you get is a bad score if you sucked. The Wii Music reward is whether you think it sounded good or bad.

Jamming with friends - you're supposed to find the common rhythm, make the rhythm by yourself. Just like any cellar band there exists.

But under the Crawford definition it is a toy not a game. For there is no goal. At least from what everyone is saying. And I don't count fun as what he means by a goal.

@bdbdbd-----> I could see what you're pointing out but how will you make a game on what you say if Ninty themselves admits that the motion control wasnt perfect or have flaws on it? How will you make a good simulation of a music game if the controllers are flawed? Its the reason why the Wii motion plus have made right? If Im convinced that Wii Music perfectly simulate any musical instruments then Im the first to buy it but as I can see, the only perfect simulation I've seen so far was the drums.

@NYANKS: Yes, you're right, and that's what Miyamoto said too.
But what i'm saying is, that what defines a product, is how it's used. I've said this a while ago, that all products can be split into two categories; tools and toys. If you have a fork that you eat with, it's a tool, but if you're throwing the fork into air, trying to get it to stick to the ceiling, it's a toy.

Now, back to the Crawford definition, it was used atleast in wrong context, since you used it to describe a product, when it describes activity. It doesn't matter if the game has goals or not, if you don't play as aiming the goals, or if the game doesn't have ones, you can set them. In Sim City, my ultimate goal was to get the Mario statue.

@yushire: Nothing is perfect. All that matters is whether it's good enough. There's no doubt that Motion Plus wouldn't make the games controls even better, but even with the current controls, there's still a lot you can do with.

The controls aren't flawed, Motion Plus is just to make them better and more featured. If you think they suck, it just means you're expecting the controls being something they aren't.

It still doesnt mean its fun :P

@Thatmax: But it doesn't mean that wouldn't be either.