Domicinator said: To OP: 1. The main people coming out and saying LBP won't be any good are the forum trolls. I don't see any MS or Nintendo ad campaigns against LBP, and they're most certainly not "scared" or "jealous" of this game. All three companies believe they have viable machines with viable software, and all three do. So far the only console with something to prove is the PS3, so if anyone is "scared" it's Sony, but I doubt that's even true. Sony has a great machine and they know it. I'm sure they're prepared to continue to do battle with their competitors just like the other two companies are. 2. No game that is surrounded by this much hype is ever going to live up to its expectations. Even the most amazing games can seem mediocre at launch because the buildup has been more exciting than the actual game. I think this game, as with any ultra-hyped game, gets a mixture of reactions: People who genuinely feel they won't like this type of game, people who may like this game but don't want to get caught up in the hype and then inevitably let down at launch, or fanboys who like to give other fanboys grief. The first two are legitimate, but the third one is unfortunately prevalent. 3. Anecdotally speaking, I don't know many people out in the real world who have even ever heard of Little Big Planet. I read all about it on web forums, blogs, and in the general gaming media, but of all the people I know in the "real world" who game (and I do know quite a few), I have never once heard anyone say how excited they are about Little Big Planet. Now, that could be because I only know a handful of PS3 owners, or it could be that only dorks like me who look for this kind of stuff online know about it. Either way, from what I can tell so far, I think LBP will sell moderately well, and will probably not push hardware sales up that much, but definitely has the potential to be an amazing game. All of those things could change with some good old fashioned marketing or a really solid, bug free launch, but I think they have some work to do before this title transcends to the level Sony wants.

That happens for just about every new IP until it is actually released.  The only games that gamers in the "real world" know about beforehand are games like Halo 3 and FFXIII.  The games from series that tons of people already know about, so when they see the flier advertising the next installment in GameStop, they go, "I want that!"

How many people knew about games like Assassin's Creed two months before launch, outside of forumites like us?

I don't really understand how you can see 'anti-hype' for LBP. I mean, at any given time there are two threads in the sony forum first page with titles like "How many millions do YOU think LBP will sell" or "LBP: Greatest Game Evar"? And yeah, I have done my share of disagreeing with those threads, because I think it's over hyped. It's a game that has innovative gameplay and a fun, quirky style that all the critics love, which is means it HAS to sell poorly. (See Psychonauts, Boom Blox, and any number of other critical-success-but-commercial-failure)

Isn't the premise of posting an idea on a forum was to get a variety of opinions from a variety of posters, not to reiterate your already held world view.

bardicverse said: To the OP: I'll explain why I as a developer, feelthat this game will not live up to its hype. 1- Audience. Yes, you reference this as a common argument, and it is perfectly valid. LBP has a target audience for the younger gamer crowd, under 11, the pokemon type crowd. The PS3 however has a main audience that ranges from high school to college kids. A Nintendo counterpart would be Pikmin to Zelda. What do you think a college kid is going to buy first? 2-Design plan. This above all else terrifies me about this game. They are using the "Leftovers for Dinner" approach. Leave everything open ended for character modification, rely on user-generated material to enhance the game. Not everyone is an artist nor wants to attempt to be one. I have a feeling that there are going to be some dramatic holes in this design. 3-Pickpocketing the poor. LBP is trying to pull a more casual audience to the PS3 for the holidays, but the system is still too expensive. With the way the US economy is this year, Christmas this year will be on a very tight budget for a lot of people. It's more a matter of poor timing than the game itself, but will affect it nonetheless.

 

 

1- While generally I'd agree the GENERAL audience is young, it isn't necessarily 11. No matter people's age, if they have a heart, they can like the cutesy appeal. I'm 22 and Little Big Planet is one of the games that has me most excited on PS3.

2- The design is not as relying on user-generated content as you seem to believe it is. Little Big Planet has linear gameplay not created by you or any other consumer. At E3 this year, that was demonstrated as one of the creators of Little Big Planet demonstrated one such level and made a comment along the lines of "This particular level is towards the end of the game." While Little Big Planet allows players to be creative, it doesn't make it not fun to those who don't want to create. They can just play other people's levels.

3- "Pickpocketing the poor", you say? Last time I checked Sony doesn't snatch the money from your pocket and shove a PS3 into your hands. People decide for themselves whether or not they want to spend their money on a PS3 or Little Big Planet by themselves. Little Big Planet is designed to have a certain appeal, but the choice is still up to the consumers.

You will always get nay sayers just ignore them.

You will always get companies endorsing their own products and seeking to one up the competition. We live in a Capiltalist society, commercialism is king.

The game will stand on its own merits. Good, bad or somewhere in between.

I've gone on record as worrying it will be a simplistic platformer with little depth.

Of course the user generated content is an unknown quantity. I just hope you can design your own props and tamper with physics or it will get old, real fast IMO.

Oh look this user has moved Stock item 27 to there. I'll have to jump a little later.

I still however want the game to do well as there is too few risks being taken by the majority of American developers in recent years. Dont think I can sit through another generic shooter.

Anyhow as a Wii60 owner I think the Graphics look jaw dropping. Lets hope there is plenty of substance to go with the style.

Time will tell.

I read the article. I have said that I'm not really big on LBP. I feel it might be kinda like Wii-Fit plus rave reviews. A great reviewed title that sells like anything, but it might not please core fans in the way they might expect.

Then again, I've clearly stated my aversion to the game is due to the fact that it's built around user generated content and online with friends, instead of a single player campaign highly polished by a developer. I don't like that idea, and that's why I don't think that I would purchase the title.

In response to the assertion that it is "by far" the most original title on a next gen console: I dunno how much more original it can get than Braid or Portal.

I certainly don't mean to be negative about the game, but it's just that it doesn't appeal to me like, say, MGS4 does, so when people try to say it's a game that I should be jealous of since my brother got my PS3....well it just kinda makes me feel upset for being misunderstood.

Another game I'm not as hyped about as others is Left 4 Dead, because of the online and co-op focused gameplay. This is even more blasphemous than my LBP distain. However, again, I try not to discuss it. I think I've only ever mentioned LBP twice on these forums, this time and when everyone was saying that it won "E3" for 2 years in a row.

Hopefully, everyone knows my feelings on the subject from those two posts, so I won't have to bring it up again. I like talking about games I'm excited about, more than flaming possibly good games that I'm not.

What the fuck? Did you just...? No, never mind, I'll leave that one.

Anyway, yes, it's a fact. Of course facts about a product can exist before the product does, when the fact in question concerns the pre-release hype surrounding said product. What I was saying is that LBP has a phenomenal amount of buzz surrounding it, especially for a new IP from a new developer. It may well be unprecedented.


I am from a small farming town! Is this helping with that demographic profile you wanted to build on me? (Incidentally, I'll give you any information you like, but I don't see how any of it is relevant to the topic besides "I am more than 11 years old").

And if you think there are 30 people rallying for LBP, you're in denial. Every gaming forum on the planet has a sizable band of cheerleaders for the game, and Sony is intent on pushing it as their premier title of the year.

And as a developer, you have the inside scoop on these things, right?

To speak for a moment about the demographic. I'm not sure how sales for this game will pan out. I know for a fact that a lot of the lesser "core" gamers for the PS3 that would be very excited about say, MGS4, or FFXIII, aren't so sure about LBP.

It could be a hardware mover, but I highly doubt it will move hardware with the big boys, like Sony hopes.

Now, if LBP gets praised, hyped, and becomes an internet sensation, then Sony is definitely looking at that Mario competitor they have been fishing for, for years. It's not gonna break sales records, but it could be the start of a very profitable franchise.

There is a lot of anti-hype on the game.

Much like the anti-hype for the Wii and Wii Sports. And we all said it'd fail for this and that reason.

So I welcome the anti-hype.

Hell, if this game has even 1/2 the success of Wii Sports, I'd die a happy man. I'm not saying LBP = Wii Sports, but it's definitely in the same boat concerning hype.

Anti-hype happens with every major exclusive, I think it's a combination of websites trying to generate traffic by trashing major games + fanboys.

Anyways, I think this game is going to be great. I don't see it outselling games like GeoW 2, but I don't think it's going to bomb either. Also, it is already a system seller, I bought the PS3 specifically for this game (getting it for $200 helped too).

Borkachev said: And as a developer, you have the inside scoop on these things, right?

Developers talk with other developers, discuss things at roundtable sessions at places like GDC, etc. It doesn't take much to get a consensus of views. For example, if you take a look at the line that Chris from Spore said a few years to a bunch of devs - that the Wii is nothing more than 2 gamecubes duct taped together. Not exactly the most insightful thing, but his expression and feeling towards the system was made known. Ask a dev for their opinion, they'll give you a monologue that'd make Shakespeare blush.

Quickly to touch back on demographic, you want to tell me that Solid Snake and SackBoy are targeted at the same crowd? I'm not sure how up you are on your marketing, but Sackboy is geared to be a marketing point - dolls and the sort. You are not the target demographic, no matter which way you paint it. It might appeal to you, but you are not the intended audience.

And no, previews and words from the source (Sony) do not make things fact. If you honestly believe those things as fact, you fit perfectly into cookie cutter corporate america.