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Forums - General Discussion - Fate vs. Free Will

::edit::

Sorry. Let me clarify.

Fate vs. Free Will

This is a classic phisophical question. What do you believe: Fate or Free Will? What do you believe and explain why

::/edit:: 

  

Classic Philosophical Question.

Pick one and explain why.



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I was very, very confused at first, because I thought the title said "Fate vs. Free Wii!"



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Sorry. Let me clarify.

Fate vs. Free Will

This is a classic phisophical question. What do you believe: Fate or Free Will? What do you believe and explain why



BenKenobi88 said:
I was very, very confused at first, because I thought the title said "Fate vs. Free Wii!"

So did I!! Oh man it took me a while to figure that out haha.



Jeez, I remember doing this one at uni (in philosophy). It ended up taking too much time, we simply had to stop.

I'll give a short reply...

Fate 

Free Will is essentially an illusion. Humans are "machines", albiet complex, organic machines (i.e. non-digital). We make analog decisions. These decisions "feel" automatic to us, although simulating them (in terms of writing a program to simulate them) is incredibly complex/hard to do. It all comes down to the analog nature of our brains, and the way that neurons work and interconnect.

So essentially - what we think is free will - is actually fate, determined by a billion minor (and major) variables both within our minds, memory, driven by our external senses - and to a certain extent "randomness".

(much of this comes down to the classic "Does God  exist" arguments - as denying free will essentially denies the existance of God, although I can't remember exactly why... I might be wrong on this last point, just something I remember from my Uni classes...).



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Both

It's free will but also fate because whatever happens was going to happen from the moment the universe came to be.

However many Wiis are sold was going to happen even before the Wii was thought of.

Yes, my answer even confuses me!

Look at both your hands in front of you and decide you are definately going to lift the LEFT hand up.....now lift the RIGHT hand up....that was going to happen anyway, if you lifted the right hand up that was also going to hapen, and if you lifted neither up but just think I am an idiot....you were always going to think that

 

Now can I have my free Wii!?



Fate.

 Take the double slit experiment.  When a stream of electrons is passed through these double slits (one at a time), a diffraction pattern is seen (with enough iterations).  This pattern is consistent with a wave passing through two slits.  However, we don't know which slit it went through to get there.  So, we set up an experiment to test it by observing one  of the slits to see if the electron passes through that one.  All of a sudden, the diffraction pattern disappears!  Nothing else in the experiment was changed; only an observation of one of the slits! Yet once this is done, the results have changed.

 Now look at this from the point of view of the electron.  It is 'free' when unobserved.  That is, it has the freedom to go through either slit, and somehow (although we do not yet know the why of this) it ends up behaving like a wave.  But as soon as it is observed, it loses its freedom.  The act of observation *removes* the freedom of the electron.  Likewise, the fact that we live in an observable universe means that the constituents of the universe are not free;  there is a rule to their behavior.  When there are rules that govern the behavior of the matter of the universe, that means that everything that happens in the universe is caused by what happened before it.   Applied to biological creatures, us, that means that everything that we do is a function of some large number of variables, including previous state of the system, stimuli on the sensory organs, chemical (in)balance, etc.  However, the large number of variables does not make it less of a function; the same input begets the same output.



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I say free will.

If fate existed, then why would I bother buckling my seat belts? If it was meant to not die in a horrible car accident, then I shouldn't have to take safety percautions.

But statistics show that more people die more often in horrible car accidents when they don't wear a seatbelt.



That Guy said:
I say free will.

If fate existed, then why would I bother buckling my seat belts? If it was meant to not die in a horrible car accident, then I shouldn't have to take safety percautions.

But statistics show that more people die more often in horrible car accidents when they don't wear a seatbelt.

obviously if you don't take safety precautions, you were meant to die in a horrible car accident.



i get a headache thinking about this.

What about =Causality= if anyone's ever seen the Matrix Trilogy, you're familiar with this word.

because of my choosing to not wear a seat belt, I sealed my fate when I got into that head on collision.

That's more of a Cause-and-Effect deal, since i suffered the consequences of my negligence. That wouldn't be considered fate, would it?