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Forums - Nintendo - Key Weakness of the Wii - Graphic Capabilites?

You know, an entire genre basically died because people were too obsessed with graphics. I'm referring, of course, to the adventure game genre. Let's look at this fallen game style and its evolution, shall we?

The adventure game was the first form of video game to ever hit personal computers, in the form of text-based parsers. They weren't always intuitive at first, but they let people live out fantastic adventures in their heads. No graphics necessary or available; writing talent and intuitive puzzle-making determined how well the games did.

Eventually we started getting some minor graphics in text adventure games, and then somebody went and made a text adventure game that used full-fledged graphics for all environments. You moved around an actual avatar in the game world, and could see things happening. Granted, it wasn't very good-looking by modern standards, but titles like King's Quest were leaps and bounds above their text-only predecessors.

As time went on, the graphics interface of the adventure game improved markedly, and the tedious text-only parser was eventually replaced with a point-and-click standard (which was much easier, though it did lend itself to a few issues with how much complexity puzzles could have when you only had 2 buttons to work with). The golden age of adventure games came right around when King's Quest VI came out: the graphics looked great, the puzzles were tricky but not obtuse, the load times were slickly absent, and the voice acting was getting much better.

And then things started going downhill. Enter the FMV adventure game, where the primary focus was the graphics. And the graphics sure did look nice, but... well, something strange happened to the gameplay. You see, as the graphics kept improving and we started getting live actors and brilliantly pre-rendered visuals, suddenly the puzzles started to get a lot less logical, and the interfaces got a lot more clunky. The load times got worse too, and now we had to contend with not one, but as many as six CDs that had to be swapped regularly.

This all hit a fever pitch of insanity right around when Riven: the Sequel to Myst came out. The visuals in Riven were top-of-the-line, totally unmatched by anything else at the time. The atmosphere was brilliantly done. You could even pan around a scene and take in many vistas, something you could NEVER do before in a 2D adventure game. And the gameplay? What gameplay? Riven was a total mess. The puzzles were so obtuse that the original Myst's puzzles looked tame in comparison. The interface was almost impossible to negotiate with. Every five minutes you were changing CDs. It was a disaster of a game.

Shortly after, adventure games were deemed "unprofitable", and the rare new one that came out ended up being more of the same: illogical puzzles, bad interfaces, and worse loading issues. The genre was thoroughly killed by un-creativity. At least until Zack and Wiki, a game that looks a lot like it was made in 2000 instead of 2007, came along and breathed new life into the genre with a whole new kind of adventure game style and an actual scoring system to reward quick-witted players moreso than the ones who took forever to solve puzzles. While it's not a critical success, it's still much more of a success than any adventure game has been since the days of Sam & Max and King's Quest VI.

The point is this: gameplay, not graphics, are key. If you focus too much on graphics at the expense of gameplay, sooner or later people say "forget it" and drop your game faster than you can say "normal-mapped". Most of these games people praise today will be forgotten and despised within a decade, as so many of the classics of yesteryear are, because they're only "fun" due to the visuals. Strip those away, and you're usually left with a sub-par game. And therein lies the reason why I love the Wii's low graphical capabilities: no talent means no success, and the Wii games that show real talent will actually remain fun to play 10 years down the line whereas most of the 360 and PS3's "must-own" library will be seen as horribly dated by then.



Sky Render - Sanity is for the weak.

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Well isnt it funny that the weakest system is the one ahead this gen?

With all the announced upcoming games, I wonder what the next fanboy excuse will be when they get launched.

@horrible~: The E3 comment expressed my sentiment of disappointment towards Nintendo's 1st party offerings, since I had my hopes very high up. Nothing to do with the excellent 3rd party support the Wii is getting from every dev but Ubisoft and SE.



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Garcian Smith said:
Commercially, the Wii has no flaws. Anything that can sell out constantly for a year and a half, all the while selling upwards of thirty million units at a price of $250 each, is as future proof as an iPod.

Graphically, the Wii is just fine. The problem lies in not enough developers utilizing the TEV, whereby the Wii can produce most of the special graphical features that the PS360 can. (Just look at Super Mario Galaxy, which looks at least as good as any launch 360 game.) In the future, though, expect developers to squeeze every ounce of juice that they can out of our little white rectangle, just like developers wrung the humble PS2 for all it was worth.

 

In my opinion that is a fairly large over statement ...

I don't know for sure but I suspect that the TEV in the Hollywood has seen a pretty decent upgrade over TEV unit in the Flipper to the extent that many of the most impressive material, lighting and shading effects that were possible on the Gamecube/XBox can be done to a level as high as can be seen at 480p at the same time; when you combine this with the high polygon and texture performance the system can do some very impressive stuff at 480p.

What this means is you can have a model which has a high enough polycount that you don't see any polygonalization artifacts, it has several texture (colour maps) which give it a surface colour, it has a normal/bump map applied to give the surface roughness, and it has a material effect applied to give it a more realistic specular properties. The XBox 360 and PS3 can do more advanced versions of these effects, at a higher level of detail, and support more of these effects at the same time though.



trestres said:
Well isnt it funny that the weakest system is the one ahead this gen?

With all the announced upcoming games, I wonder what the next fanboy excuse will be when they get launched.

Now you are admitting it's the weakest. That's a good start. You're getting there. ;)

Gameplay AND graphics make good games. It's not a choice between the two (unless you only own a Wii).

It's a total falsehood to think that having a system with weaker graphics leads to better games in some way. Developers are actually limited by that in fact, not the other way round and there are dozens of examples of Wii games with shit graphics and shit gameplay so it's as susceptible to that as any other system. It's just that the best you're going to get on it will always be worse in a couple of aspects than the best you'll get on any of the other systems.

 



HD adoption isn't at an all-time high

Actually, it is. The number of people buying HDTVs is at an all time high right now.



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Digital TV won't be the norm until next year in the US, so people might want to wait before upgrading, since Digital HD TVs will be cheaper in one year.

Besides Digital SD TVs will also be cheaper...



Proud poster of the 10000th reply at the Official Smash Bros Update Thread.

tag - "I wouldn't trust gamespot, even if it was a live comparison."

Bets with Conegamer:

Pandora's Tower will have an opening week of less than 37k in Japan. (Won!)
Pandora's Tower will sell less than 100k lifetime in Japan.
Stakes: 1 week of avatar control for each one.

Fullfilled Prophecies

Soriku said:
horriblebastard said:
HD adoption isn't at an all-time high

Actually, it is. The number of people buying HDTVs is at an all time high right now.

 

If now is at an all-time high then I fear for HD's future seeing as how adoption rates aren't exactly skyrocketing.

Face it, right now HD isn't that popular. In year's time it will. Now? No.

I think you misunderstand what "all time high" means. The number of people buying HDTVs is at an all time high now, but it doesn't mean the figure can't increase - then THAT figure becomes the new all time high.

You say that HD will be popular in a year's time, but isn't the Wii here for a good few more years yet?

Here's some data from the Consumer Electronics Association from June 2007: -

Thirty percent of U.S. households now have an HDTV, likely rising to 36 percent by the end of this year.

A third of US households a year ago and rising all the time is a low adoption rate, do you think?



As I said, the developers efforts themselves will determine if the Wii's graphics are good enough to get by this generation, not anything else will have nearly the effect.

That being said, I can't wait to play the beauty of a game called Oboro Muramasa Youtouden. :)



Nobody is crazy enough to accuse me of being sane.

@vanguardian1: Oboro Muramasa Youtouden along with many other titles on the Wii are the true proof that talented teams can create aesthetically pleasant games if they focus more on the artistic side, rather than on the consoles strengths. Not to say thet SMG or MP3 aren't great looking, but Wii can achieve spectacular looking games, just like PS2 with Okami, or GC with Zelda WW did last gen



Proud poster of the 10000th reply at the Official Smash Bros Update Thread.

tag - "I wouldn't trust gamespot, even if it was a live comparison."

Bets with Conegamer:

Pandora's Tower will have an opening week of less than 37k in Japan. (Won!)
Pandora's Tower will sell less than 100k lifetime in Japan.
Stakes: 1 week of avatar control for each one.

Fullfilled Prophecies

for me it has bigger issues like ONLINE SYSTEM which sucks big time ^^ (comparing to the competition)